Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters

[pugh]

Yikes!  This hoary old chestnut keeps popping back up to the top of the list every so often.  I thought we'd put this one to bed long ago.

I'd just written loads but then I realised it was just reiterating what has already been said over the previous 4 pages so I won't bother you with it.

I am firmly of the opinion that it should not happen, lights and sirens that is.  I also firmly believe that the brigades have a duty to review their IRMP and increase the manning where such stations are having difficulties in getting a crew let alone meeting turn-out times, supplementing the RDS with WTS.  It's what Joe Public pays for and is entitled to receive.

Yes, it will cost money, but doesn't everything?

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If my opinions offend, you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a hoot!

[fireftrm]

EXACTLY, Pugh

[nearlythere]

The Road Safety Act only removed the right for the speed exemption from non Local Authority Fire Services, etc. It did not affect the existing legislation for other exemptions such as red lights becoming stop & give way signs, ignoring keep left bollards, etc.

And although Police, Ambulance & LA Fire Authorities still retain the speed exemption they are now compelled to provide drivers with specialist training   (the minimum acceptable standard still awaiting clarification in a subordinate Order to be issued by the Secretary of State) in high speed driving in order to do so - before this no training was required (although most organisations did).

So already disjointed legislation becomes more so (as a result of a knee jerk quick fix due to press about several high speed police crashes over recent years).We now have:
- One set of rules and definitions for who can have a siren
- Another set of rules and different definitions for who can have blue lights
- A set of rules and yet again different definitions for who can excercise certain exemptions such as red lights, keep left signs etc
- And another new set of rules with- you guessed - different definitions regarding exemptions of speed limits

No wonder there are so many arguements!

I believe that the legislation also allowed that the engine of a fire appliance could be left running without anyone having to be in the driving seat, or words to that effect. This is to allow for pumping purposes.

[devon4ever]

I seem to remember the exemptions for FRS drivers were as follows:

Exceed the road speed limit only where safe to do so without causing a hazard
Treat a red traffic light as a give-way junction
Negotiate one way streets in contraflow to the designated route
Sound sirens and horns between the hours of 2300 & 0700
Sound sirens & horns when stationary
Park on common ground
Leave the vehicle unattended with the engine running; (referred to by Yesterday)

There may be more but I'm running out of available memory space on my cranium hard drive, however,  I do recall that even following the guidelines, (and thats all they were), of the first 3 above, if any driver of an appliance, (irrespective of urgency or advice from his OIC), who causes an accident is still subject to prosecution

[Mike Buckley]

If I remember correctly it was not necessary to cause an accident, any driver involved in an accident under those conditions could be done for 'driving with undue care and attention' for a starter.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

Having been in the unfortunate position of being involved in an RTC while proceeding to an incident, the subsequent investigation apportioned no blame to either party, based on the evidence of witnesses at the scene.

However, some months later, I was interviewd under caution and reported for the offence of driving without due care and consideration to other road users. Not a nice experience.

Other exemptions include being able to reverse and drive on the hard shoulder of a motorway (for the purposes of dealing with an emergency)

Competely agree with Pugh's post ..... spot on and well stated!

[adamparker]

right i have bought a sign for my visor which says fire i use it to stop people to block me in and is very visable to the car in front but its not enough to tell them your on a call ie. i was thinking headlight flashers next

[Midland Retty]

I would strongly advise you NOT  to fit flashy headlights.

Not only will the local bobbies be unimpressed but you'll probably find colleagues, mates and members of the public alike will think you are pratt.

[AnthonyB]

Plus if it was not authorised by the FRS they may well drop you like a hot brick!

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

I would strongly advise you NOT  to fit flashy headlights.

Not only will the local bobbies be unimpressed but you'll probably find colleagues, mates and members of the public alike will think you are pratt.

I'd agree with that!!  Your car is not an authorised vehicle and you could be prosecuted as such.

I'm not even sure I agree with the sign ...... or painting your vehicle to look like a fire service van with striped bumpers etc as I saw on holiday in Cornwall last year .....

[JC100]

The whole idea of retained firefighters usings lights and signs is ridiculous.

I was almost home from work a few nights ago on a country lane, when a male in a black car came up behind me at a crossroad, sounding his horn, flashing his head lights and waving a red FIRE sign in his hand. As soon as i noticed this, he had already overtaken me, shot straight across the junction and swerved narrowly missing the car on the other side. He then proceeded to drive through a 30mph village at about 45mph.

One of the stipulations for retained firefighters is that when on call, they are within a certain distance of the fire station. This is to enable them to get to the station within a required time so they can respond.
All this talk of signs and flashing lights, breaking the road traffic act etc makes me wonder whether some firefighters are more concerned with getting a bit of extra money in their pocket for arriving quickly and getting on the pump rather than making it to the station safely so they can help those who need it.

[Midland Retty]

The whole idea of retained firefighters usings lights and signs is ridiculous.

Totally agree lights are a no no

Signs? well... hmmm slightly disagree.... I have a sign on my dashboard that ask people not to block me in - we all were having problem with our cars being obstructed on our driveways because the village has little parking and is a tourist attraction so gets packed.

In my opinion a sign like that is not a tool for posing with or to allow me to break all traffic laws, but just to politely ask people not to block me in.

The sign has elliviated the problem.

But to make you car look like a fire service vehicle is very sad indeed.

[JC100]

Signs? well... hmmm slightly disagree.... I have a sign on my dashboard that ask people not to block me in - we all were having problem with our cars being obstructed on our driveways because the village has little parking and is a tourist attraction so gets packed.

In my opinion a sign like that is not a tool for posing with or to allow me to break all traffic laws, but just to politely ask people not to block me in.

The sign has elliviated the problem.

I agree in certain situations a sign when parked may be useful.

The people who wave them about, tailgating other drivers and flashing head lights to try and pass people, in my eyes is just another form of road rage, even if they think its justified.

But to make you car look like a fire service vehicle is very sad indeed.

Completely agree!

[Midland Retty]

.

The people who wave them about, tailgating other drivers and flashing head lights to try and pass people, in my eyes is just another form of road rage, even if they think its justified.

Indeed, and infact that may even be illegal let alone stupid, and once again a bit sad

[Big T]

These people need to get out more. Making their cars look like fire engines etc. Sad

I disagree with signs (except in the situation midland mentioned). Especially people who utilise their sign to justify parking illegally, hazards flashing on double yellows so they can nip to the shops etc.

If your on call, fine, don't abuse it to be able to park like a moron. It just winds everybody up. If I get an unmarked civilian veihcle with a fire sign and flashing headlights in my rear mirror with flashing headlights I will certainly not pull over or get out of the way. I may even deliberately cause an obstruction....