Emergency lighting

[Tom Sutton]

My sister’s guesthouse is fed by two separate consumer units therefore the non-maintained emergency lighting is split between the two. After a recent visit from the fire officer he implied that the complete emergency lighting should be activated if either supply is lost. Surly if one supply is lost and its emergency lights activate this is sufficient as the other good supply will maintain its normal lighting.

What has happen to common sense?

[Graeme]

like you say if the power in one buidling is still on then what would be the point of having the emergency lighting on in that building?

[johno67]

Personally I'd ask him to explain his reasoning for the request. Is the lighting all mixed together or are the areas served by the consumer units clearly seperate? If they are seperate then I could see no good reason for his concern (no different to having 2 lighting sub-circuits). In which case I'd probably ignore him (as long as I could justify it through my FRA). If the two sets of lighting are all mixed together then could it possibly cause confusion during the hours of darkness if some of the lights came on but others didn't?

[kurnal]

Very many premises have the emergency escape lighting incorrectly wired- as we all know the emergency lighting should be configured to ensure that if any local lighting sub circuit should fail then the non maintained emergency escape lighting IN THAT SAME AREA   should operate. Sorry for shouting but so many places are incorrectly wired with the non maintained emergency escape lighting going back to its own circuit breaker on the Distribution board. In so many cases including some very posh hotels with multiple distribution boards I have even seen non maintained emergency lights powered from distribution boards in a different part of the premises and even recently on a different phase.  

Making them all work together is not the answer though- we need to ensure that they work on local subcircuit failure.

[slubberdegullion]

It seems to be a speciality of licensed premises that if the sub-circuit for the lights in the toilets fails the emergency lighting comes on in the kitchen!

Tw, it should suffice to check that, if the lighting fails in one area, the EL comes on to cover that area.

Do note Johno's comments though.

Also, hotels and guest houses often prefer to have maintained lighting so that guests who choose to wander about in the night don't have to fumble about for switches in the darkness.  This may be worth considering for health and safety reasons.

Stu

[Tom Sutton]

Thank you all for your responses and I will direct my questioner to this page for further information.

[nearlythere]

As we all know the safety lighting, actually escape lighting, should operate in the event of a mains or subcircuit power failure.
Test the system by turning on all lights pull a fuse one at a time and ensure that where the lights has gone off that a safety light has come on and provided the level of lighting required. Escape lighting would only be required in certain areas such as internal and external escape lights.
Don' t forget that one can use borrowed light in the event of a power failure.

[John Webb]

Don' t forget that one can use borrowed light in the event of a power failure.

It concerns me about the use of 'borrowed light' when designing emergency lighting. In my home locality we have had no less than 5 supply interuptions since the beginning of this year ranging from a few minutes to one of two hours and another of over two and a half hours. This affected the whole neighbourhood. So at my own church's Parish Centre there would have been no 'borrowed light' from the nearby industrial estate. As a result I've had to revise the FRA and recommend the extension of emergency lights to outside the building where before the 'borrowed light' was considered sufficient.

[kurnal]

If you have a fire in the building at the same time as a general area power cut there could be a problem. But  how far is it reasonable to go in planning these things and are the principal concerns in respect of a fire risk assessment or would it be more relevant  to the general H&S premises risk assessment?

Sounds like a case of the system for review working exactly as it was intended though.

[Dragonmaster]

As we all know the safety lighting, actually escape lighting, should operate in the event of a mains or subcircuit power failure.
Test the system by turning on all lights pull a fuse one at a time and ensure that where the lights has gone off that a safety light has come on and provided the level of lighting required. Escape lighting would only be required in certain areas such as internal and external escape lights.
Don' t forget that one can use borrowed light in the event of a power failure.

Sorry to disagree, but you should not break a live circuit by pulling the fuse (NIC EIC rules). If the distribution board has MCB's then fine, you're only turning off the circuit, but by pulling a fuse, you do run the risk of an electric shock, and probably creating a spark (uncontrolled ignition source?)

[Graeme]

that would be in my ideal world Dragon Master but unfortunately i still have to pull hundreds of fuses every year to test e/lighting even the big old porcelain ones.

[slubberdegullion]

If you have a fire in the building at the same time as a general area power cut there could be a problem. But  how far is it reasonable to go in planning these things and are the principal concerns in respect of a fire risk assessment or would it be more relevant  to the general H&S premises risk assessment?

Sounds like a case of the system for review working exactly as it was intended though.

There is "emergency lighting" and there is the sub-set "escape lighting."  When discussing EL (emergency or escape?) with occupiers I have a tendency to broaden the analysis to emergency lighting, including general health and safety in the discussion.  Wht not?

Stu

[kurnal]

yes I tend to lump it together under a the term  emergency escape lighting cos then everybody knows what I am talking about. It then includes the fittings such at points of emphasis, in lift cars, in lift motor rooms, in electrical switch rooms, at first aid points in one hit. But it may be technically imperfect.
The only time I find it gets less relevant is where there is a mix of systems in a building for example where some key safety lighting is on a inverter / generator backup and only core escape routes have what is then best described as escape lighting.

[Tom Sutton]

From my questioner,

Thanks to you and your friends help on my question, I found it very helpful.
 
A couple of points that were raised;
 
The fire officer was doing a general risk assessment to make sure my sisters business complied with the new fire regs. We are now in the process of fitting a new fire alarm and a couple of extra emergency lights.
The guesthouse is relatively small with only 7 letting rooms and although an extension was added prior to purchase with the 2nd consumer unit the lighting is zoned, ie one covers middle & top floors and the other the ground floor. That's why we found his request a little odd.
 
Thanks once again and if you think any thing else may be relevant please don't hesitate to forward it.

[Les Potter(elementalfire)]

have you considered indicating the escape route with photo-luminscent signage. if i the natural light or the powered light in the areas are of a good standard in normal conditions, in the event of a power failure these types of signs will provide a high standard of direction without the need to install full emergency lighting throughout. IMHO you should contact www.jalite.co.uk who are the leaders in this industry with reference to their AAA signs for further advice