Fire Exit Sign

[jokar]

Only way out and therefore a sign is unnecessary.

[Jim Creak]

Quite right, the risk assessment determines the need for signs. If your risk assessment deems that signs are not required there is no need for signs. People that un unfamiliar with the environment will need more reassurance than those that are familiar. Escape Route Signs sited and installed inaccordance with BS5499 Part 4 2000 can be deemed to ensure that from any location within a building the escape route signs will lead you to a place of safety.

The system and convention for arrow directions is established by International Standard ISO 16069 for Safety Wayguidance and is exactly the same as BS 5499 Part 4 2000... Arrow up.. Straight On......Arrow down.....Down from here.

No Arrow down over doors!! Arrows are indicating direction of escape not pointing to doors, floors or ceilings.!!!

It really is not rocket science, its intuitive, simple and effective. BS5499 Part 4 2000

[Psuedonym]

How many premises have botched signage?? Here's an idea to get you wound up if your bored: Tommorow check all the E/E signage in one premises, superstore, office - whether the signage be E/L or Rigid Plastic.
What percentage is there an Arrow Down in a position where it is trying to say "Onward from here" i.e. It should be Arrow Up but an "Expert" or "Person with Authority" thinks the Arrow DOWN means Onward or Though Here. WHY??
(Teeth grinding)

Spoke to an installation sparky recently who said he was as frustrated but apparently his suppliers only supply Left/Right or Down. A bigger issue than simply specification maybe?

[Psuedonym]

O.K what about this scenario. A common area landing with lift & 4 flats, with 1hr fire doors. The wall separating the lobby from the rear stairwell/fire escape route consists of a 1hr fire door and 3.3 sqm of georgian wired glass. The two flat doors furthest from the fire door are 4.5 metres away, on each floor. Should there be a fire exit sign above the fire door to the stairs (if so illuminated, normal or photoluminescent).  Or is it so obvious where to go that any sign is unnecessary. If a sign is required above the door, could the arrow be pointing diagonally down to the right, as once you pass through the fire door the stairs are immediately to your right; there is no mounting point in front of you, and if the sign was mounted on the ceiling, you'd be standing directly underneath it. There is wall 2.2 metres to your right, but you'd be already decending the stairs at that point. It was worth joining the forum just to get that lot out of my system. Your help please.

Assuming no issues with listed building regs : F/E c/w Arrow Up above the Fire Door to stairs. F/E Arrow Down Right ceiling mounted OR on stairwell wall along the wall opposite the door (assuming there is a visual potential there? If not -  stick to ceiling mount on stairwell).
Do Not Use Lifts In Event Of Fire at lift control call button point. Fire Action Notice and MCP sign at MCP.

Do to close proximity of visual distances the sign text size can also be reduced from the standard 150 x 450mm F/E sign - see www.meansofescape.co.uk for the veiwing tables.

Not in Bournmouth though are you? They may have an issue with safety signage

[John Dragon]

How many premises have botched signage?? Here's an idea to get you wound up if your bored: Tommorow check all the E/E signage in one premises, superstore, office - whether the signage be E/L or Rigid Plastic.
What percentage is there an Arrow Down in a position where it is trying to say "Onward from here" i.e. It should be Arrow Up but an "Expert" or "Person with Authority" thinks the Arrow DOWN means Onward or Though Here. WHY??
(Teeth grinding)

Spoke to an installation sparky recently who said he was as frustrated but apparently his suppliers only supply Left/Right or Down. A bigger issue than simply specification maybe?

I bought six of a different make of illuminated exit sign last week, made by Eterna, they came with 4 rigid plastic legends (up, down, left and right), never seen that before!

[Wiz]

.........Spoke to an installation sparky recently who said he was as frustrated but apparently his suppliers only supply Left/Right or Down. A bigger issue than simply specification maybe?

Cooper Lighting who own the well-known JSB and Menvier brands manufacture dozens of emergency lighting models with signage, but I can't find any they make with an 'UP' arrow. If even the big manufacturers don't make 'em how can the installers fit 'em?

[Wiz]

........I bought six of a different make of illuminated exit sign last week, made by Eterna, they came with 4 rigid plastic legends (up, down, left and right), never seen that before!

I had a look at the Eterna website and they show a 'self-adhesive' legend pack where the arrow could be placed in any orientation.
The Eterna range of E/L fittings seemed to be for the 'budget' end of the market and didn't include any low-voltage luminaires for slave fitting systems. So these wouldn't be suitable for everyone
Does anyone know of proper sign boxes for low-voltage slave fitting use with UP arrows?

[AnthonyB]

Short of getting blanks & sticking on the appropriate legends from Jactone (where you can use BS symbols and text as well as arrows) or others (if you want the EC man, arrow, fridge) I can't think of any off the top of my head ex-stock although BLE Lighting & Fire http://www.blesales.co.uk/ do a large range of fittings and offer custom legends in addition to their stock left, right & down arrows

[Psuedonym]

Precisely my point, the manufacturers have for whatever reason, ceased supplying the Up Arrow. Why? Who knows. Possibly the usual routine of one manufacturer copying anothers design or to reduce costs / increase sales by deciding reducing  a "confusing" choice with one forward arrow would suffice. Maybe the EN Directive was a turning point for the major players who cross sell around Europe, once the UK signed in to the EN Directive it led to a single market therefore one product meant increased profits. Bah Humbug ..Capitalists!!!

[messy]

How many premises have botched signage?? Here's an idea to get you wound up if your bored: Tommorow check all the E/E signage in one premises, superstore, office - whether the signage be E/L or Rigid Plastic.
What percentage is there an Arrow Down in a position where it is trying to say "Onward from here" i.e. It should be Arrow Up but an "Expert" or "Person with Authority" thinks the Arrow DOWN means Onward or Though Here. WHY??
(Teeth grinding)

Spoke to an installation sparky recently who said he was as frustrated but apparently his suppliers only supply Left/Right or Down. A bigger issue than simply specification maybe?

Does it really matter which way the arrow is pointing for the 'ahead' direction??

OK it's not located as per the BS, but as long as it's meaning is clear and cannot be misunderstood - who cares?

In addition, it's important to establish that the the positioning of the 'wrong sign' cannot confuse a downward route (which isn't an escape route) with the actual designated escape route. To me, it seems that changing the sign is a waste of money and achives very littel

 The most important issue is that the sign is (or could be) understood by all that have to use it. After all, how many punters would have a clue which way up the sign should be??

[kurnal]

Ah!  I feel a posting from Jim C may be imminent!

This topic has been discussed at length before, we generally all fall out about it and start blaming each other for the mess over exit signage. Meanwhile I refer the honourable Gentleman to the guidance to the Health and Safety (Safety Signs and Signals Regulations) published by the HSE and to the BS5499 and leave you to scrap it out between you, Everyone is right and nobody is wrong whatever your views on this!

[Wiz]

How many premises have botched signage?? Here's an idea to get you wound up if your bored: Tommorow check all the E/E signage in one premises, superstore, office - whether the signage be E/L or Rigid Plastic.
What percentage is there an Arrow Down in a position where it is trying to say "Onward from here" i.e. It should be Arrow Up but an "Expert" or "Person with Authority" thinks the Arrow DOWN means Onward or Though Here. WHY??
(Teeth grinding)

Spoke to an installation sparky recently who said he was as frustrated but apparently his suppliers only supply Left/Right or Down. A bigger issue than simply specification maybe?

Does it really matter which way the arrow is pointing for the 'ahead' direction??..........

 .........The most important issue is that the sign is (or could be) understood by all that have to use it. After all, how many punters would have a clue which way up the sign should be??

Car drivers understand that an upward pointing arrow on a sign means straight ahead. If the arrow was pointing downwards, maybe they would turn around and drive the other way! Surely, very dangerous in an emergency situation

[wee brian]

If you just want people to go through a door - you dont need an arrow. Just put the pictogram on or over the door.

[jokar]

WB, Wow thats controversial making people understand where to go.  BS 5499 and the Signs and Signals Regs are far more explicit.

[wee brian]

Contraversial is my middle name.  If a door is a fire exit just put a fire exit sign on it.

What else would people do other than walk through it?  Perhaps with an up arrow by the door people will try and climb through the fanlight over the door?