Regulatory Reform order/Building regs

[mick607]

when carrying out Fire risk assessments what is the relationship between the rro & bld regs

[wee brian]

There isnt a formal one. But a building that meets current regs should have all the stuff in it you need.

You still need to do all the management stuff etc.etc.

[jayjay]

I wish it was as simple as that
My experience is that Part B is a minimum standard and that is all that designers/architecs  will seek to achive.
Although the Procedural Guidance says that a risk assessment should also be carried out I have never seen this happen yet.

What designers need to remember is that there is no statutory bar and that any short comings identified in the fire risk assessment could lead them to be held liable as the person having designed the premises if a fire should occur.
They are a contractor engaged to develop the building and they are just as liable as the fire alarm installer or the joiner who fits the fire resisting doors.

I do not think that the excuse "It complies with building Regulations" is a strong enough reason for architects or designers to disregard any short coming identified in a fire risk assessment. Complying with Part B of the building Regs does not  guarantee compliance with the RRO.

I have come across this situation a numbers of times, and it is usually the occupier/owner of the building who finds they have to sort out the problems usually at additional cost.

[nearlythere]

Is it not the case that no claim of code compliance is relevant any more because risk assessments are dynamic? A Building Control completion certificate would be valid for a year or until significant changes have been made, which ever comes first.
A completion cert only certifies that the property was built to satisfy the safety requirements of Building Regs. It is not a certificate for how the building is used or maintained.

[jokar]

Bldg Regs are for new builds and alterations and extension to existing builidngs that when subject to Building Regs may not be occupied.  Put people in and the dynamic chnages and therefore through the FRA process you may come up with additional works to protect relevant people.

[AFD]

I agree with everything said above, and a really good example is if you look at Residential Care Premises and the RRfsO guide for them.  With higher dependency residents, which they/we all become in time, because people do not move out of a care home as they get older and frailer.  So to make a building future proof you should use high dependency guidelines.  low travel distances, the realistic ( not !) 2.5 minute evacuation time .  It shows that ADB is a waste of time for a RRfsO compliant building.

[Philip2]

Why do the FRO guidance offer guidance travel distance & ADB maximum travel distances?
Why aren't the stated travel travel distances for given property the same?

[AFD]

there is a political and profit incentive to building regs, if someone dies, then in a coroners court or public enquiery, there is not to risk assessment !

[wee brian]

Sentance complete not

[AFD]

Arkitex an bilding kontrol ofisers are all umcumfourtabel wiv this,  wee Bri ! but agin, wee mus not tawk about it ! b cos people in powah no its a problem !

There is not a risk assessment involved in B regs. ! the guidance states we should provide a strategy and risk assessment with the application, but who does ?  It is not in the financial interest of architects and approved inspectors to do so !

Say wat ?

[davio1960]

Is'nt it the case that all buildings are safe when they are constructed its the "person" factor that changes the emphisis. (This sentance can be created in a less PC fashion and is more direct but hey its Sunday!)

From my undestanding
1)Designer/architect creates a drawing that fulfils the customers requirement and at drawing stage assess the fire safety strategy and add safer stuff to the design
2)Builders build it and risk assess there own activities...running away to a safe place in event of fire should be inclusive
3)Builders leave after constructing a safe and empty premises and building control inspector provides a certificate of compliance to the B Regs
4)Occupants re-consider use/space and at this time risk assess there own activities
5)They occupy space and should review th risk assessment
6)fire safety officer audits FRA, in due course, often cos a complaint
7)occupants leave/go bust/?
8)building ends of life so its demolished
9)USAR use the partially demolished building for training and get on the telly in their orange overalls and sun glasses
10)demolition firm assess risks prior to the big or partial bang of explosives
11) 22,000 domestic dwellings are built on the brown field site after the newt is found a new puddle!

life goes on ...the circle of life

Fulfilling the requirement of B regs is in itself an assessment of the needs and uses of the premises and these should fulfill the requirements of other (our) legislation.
My own thoughts may not provoke any meaning and deep discussion!
Davio1960