Author Topic: Portable Fire Extinguishers EN 3 Standards  (Read 10221 times)

Offline Tom Sutton

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Portable Fire Extinguishers EN 3 Standards
« on: December 03, 2007, 08:41:21 PM »
As the result of an enquiry I received on metal fires I have been researching portable fire extinguishers and when I looked at the British Standards I found EN 3 parts 1 to 5 have been withdrawn but part 6 is still current and as it relates to parts 1 to 5 so why has it not been withdrawn?

EN 3 Part 7:2004 has superseded the above parts 1 to 5 and parts 8 and 9 :2006 are Additional requirements to EN 3-7 you also have to refer to BS 5306, BS 7863 and BS 7937 why do they make it so difficult?
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline AnthonyB

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Portable Fire Extinguishers EN 3 Standards
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 11:53:54 PM »
Not difficult - profitable! Unless you subscribe to OHSIS or similar you have to cough up loadsamoney for all the paperwork - & more changes are afoot!
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Offline Tom Sutton

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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 10:31:40 AM »
I agree with you Anthony but could you explain why part 6 is current as it relates to Parts 1-5?
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Psuedonym

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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2008, 09:21:58 PM »
I too spend ages researching a BS standard for metal fires and no doubt arrived at the same result as yourself. As for the Part 6, I believe an updated version is due this year or have I heard incorrectly - it was late one night (hic!) during an Ammerex course! ;)
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Offline kurnal

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Portable Fire Extinguishers EN 3 Standards
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2008, 10:03:06 PM »
Just hope you aint as cheerful come 5pm next Saturday. Up the Rams!

Offline Psuedonym

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Portable Fire Extinguishers EN 3 Standards
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2008, 10:11:48 PM »
Quote from: kurnal
Just hope you aint as cheerful come 5pm next Saturday. Up the Rams!
Wrong shaped ball Kurnal (good luck)!!!
Ansul R102 Kitchen Suppression Enthusiast


Created using refurbished electrons to ensure I do my bit to save the planet...Polar bear cubs saved so far:2.75. Reduced due to effects of Carbon Footprint on the carpet. It's a bugger to shift...

Offline The Colonel

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Portable Fire Extinguishers EN 3 Standards
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2008, 11:34:22 PM »
Tw & psuedonym

Anything that you would like to share with regard to ext and metal fires would be appreciated as I have said I would look into them for a client that operates a recycling centre and when I asked about experiance with metal fire there were a few raised eye brows with regard to water and which metls could be spectacular. Had a couple in the area many years ago with spectacular results, just glad not to be on duty on those occasions.

Offline Tom Sutton

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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2008, 10:51:38 AM »
Colonel it was portable extinguishers I was researching not necessaryily metal fires.

However I remember a plane crashing on a factory in Speke Liverpool (1960`s). Part of its undercarriage ended up in a field nearby well alight. They used water from a distance, creating a fine firework display but never the less the standby was reduced considerably.

Also I remember one of the instructors at Moreton (the mad Irishman), taking chemistry, did a demo of the thermite reaction and then putting a little water on it, the entire front row had to change their shirts. They also did demonstrations on the fireground.

My biggest problem was finding a supplier of suitable potable extinguishers for metal fires eventually I found two, with the help of AnthonyB
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Ken Taylor

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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2008, 05:53:43 PM »
I see that this 11 year old (and soon to be replaced) publication is now £118 to non BSI members! A few libraries used to stock BSs in their reference sections or hold them on microfiches, etc - but I suspect that either the BS people got wise to this or the libraries also found them too expensive. This stuff really ought to be publically available on the Net (like legislation) these days.

Offline John Dragon

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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2008, 06:39:58 PM »
For a non-profit making organisation, where does all the money go?

Offline nearlythere

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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2008, 08:20:21 PM »
Quote from: The Colonel
Tw & psuedonym

Anything that you would like to share with regard to ext and metal fires would be appreciated as I have said I would look into them for a client that operates a recycling centre and when I asked about experiance with metal fire there were a few raised eye brows with regard to water and which metls could be spectacular. Had a couple in the area many years ago with spectacular results, just glad not to be on duty on those occasions.
One really does have to remember that the action one expects an employeee to take (if he/she wants to) in dealing with a fire should be within the reasonable capabilities of the average person.
It would be quite wrong to try and expect normal workers to be able to deal with something other than the initial outbreak of a normal fire. The saying in the F&RS is that if you can't put it out with one extinguisher then leave it and get out yourself.
Fires which are of a special nature should be dealt with firstly by fire prevention, and if that fails - evacuation.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline kurnal

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Portable Fire Extinguishers EN 3 Standards
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2008, 08:59:30 PM »
You are right nearlythere- but there is another angle on this.

What equipment and expertise to the average fire brigade to deal with specialist fires? They do usually argue that if the employer creates a special risk then it is down to the employer to manage that risk which includes provision of specialist equipment. We see this at major chemical plants- who are rightly expected to provide foam stockes and equipment, in the mines, in the nuclear industry. Yes the staff expected to use this equipment must have suitable and sufficient training.

Heres an example- one of my clients is a major metal recycler. They deal with reactive metals - titanium, magnesium ets sometimes finely subdivided, and prone to spontaneous ignition. Big bad fires especially if metals are mixed!!! Just before they called me in they had one fire and were singularly ill prepared for it. The fire involved a drum of titanium turnings amongst other drums - value £18k per tonne. They called in the local brigade who put water jets on the fire and had to retreat hastily. They have  now changed their mode of storage, are much more careful over stock control and segregation,  have provided ammerex class D extinguishers and given staff training in how to use them. If they have another fire is it likely that the brigade will have ever encountered this type of extinguisher and know how to use it? Not in my day they wouldn't.

Offline John Webb

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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2008, 11:18:29 PM »
Quote from: John Dragon
For a non-profit making organisation, where does all the money go?
I sat for a few years on a BSI Committee dealing with fixed fire-fighting equipment. We met around three times a year, originally in central London and then at Chiswick. Every meeting involved about a 2inch thick stack of paper for each member of the committee (circa 30) - that's a lot of printing and postage and not easy to do over the internet either. And we were just one of many hundreds of committees. They all need the BSI secretariat to handle the paperwork, collate comments, issue new standards and amendments.....

Perhaps if BSs were entirely electronic the price could come down, but I can see problems even in that - they'd have to be in a tamper-proof format so people could not sneak in their own 'little' alterations for a start.
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline jokar

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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2008, 10:51:38 AM »
I know of an IO who is recommending that a hospital install hose reels for use by their staff prior to the arrival of the Brigade.  Now when the Brigade arrive they will wear PPE, BA, double up to protect each other and have comms to somewhere.  Can anyone explain the sense of this to me?

Offline nearlythere

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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2008, 11:58:24 AM »
Quote from: jokar
I know of an IO who is recommending that a hospital install hose reels for use by their staff prior to the arrival of the Brigade.  Now when the Brigade arrive they will wear PPE, BA, double up to protect each other and have comms to somewhere.  Can anyone explain the sense of this to me?
Can't really.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.