Competence

[send in the clowns]

I  have a couple of questions and I wonder what your views are.

1. If a crew Manager is paid a development rate of pay and not a competent rate, is this an admission of the brigade that they are not competent?
2. If they are not competent, should they not be going to fires with a mentor or someone to develop them until they become competent.
3. How would it stand up in court if there was a serious accident or worse and  I was not Competent as deemed by the brigade (because I am on development rate of pay)
4.I thought Health and Safety said something like crews have to be 'Competent to carry out the tasks'- surely if someone is on a development rate, this could be said that they don't meet this criteria.

The above will directly affect me in the very near future and I want to make sure I know where I stand - it's all right my brigade saying it's ok but I want to know the legal implications?

[The Lawman]

Surely you have to demonstrate competence to act up or secure promotion to a more senior position.  The term "competent" in relation to pay seems unfortunate and misleading and I'm surprised that it is still in the vernacular.

[send in the clowns]

I think you have to demonstrate  competence at your current level but if you are taking temporary promotion, you have not demonstrated competence at that level so you get paid development rate.
The term may be 'unfortunate and misleading '  as you said but this is no defence if something bad happened at an incident and the person who made the decision was not 'competent' in the eyes of their Brigade, or am I reading too much into this?

[send in the clowns]

Has no-one any views on this subject as I am quite worried at the thought of being on a development rate of pay as it implies I am still developing and not yet competent in my role- yet I am still going in charge of fire appliances and making major decisions at incidents?

Any comments would be appreciated.

[toby14483]

I'm not sure. I would suggest enquiring with your line manager or Union Representative.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

You must have been deemed suitable for temporary promotion ...... you should be competent within current role and have taken the necessary assessment for the next role through such as an ADC or similar. It does provide the criteria in the grey book.

Competence is achieved by demonstrating to an assessor on several occassions over a period of time that you are consistently achieving the benchmark standards and providing other evidence, such as witness testimonies to substantiate the fact.

When you are in a development role, you are developing ..... learning the skills and aquiring the underpinning knowledge to demonstrate competence and obtain experience.
Your employers must be aware of the responsibility they are placing on you by giving you temporary promotion, so I think you are reading too much into it.

Legally speaking, your employers are vicariously responsible.

[xan]

you are either 'competent' or 'under developement'. There is no 'incompetent' rate of pay.As previous ly said,your employer is responsible,although you have to demonstrate reasonable care.

[send in the clowns]

baldyman
My or my friends have never taken any assessment to the next role through an ADC or have been assessed for that role.

as you mention 'legally speaking your employers are vicariously responsible' and Xan mentioned that there is no incompetent rate of pay!

i was speaking last night to a friend of a friend who is a lawyer and he laughed at the way my organisation operated.

He said that if I was not being paid a competent rate of pay then it was because I was not competent- my organisation could call it what they wanted but it wouldn't stand up in court!!!
Under development=working towards competence=not competent in his eyes.

He also said that most claims against Fire authorities now involve the brigade and a named person so vicarious liability still stands but they will go for an individual as well.

Anyway, I have made up my mind and after next week i will be at my substantive rank where I am deemed competent- money is not worth it after then anyway.