Another Odd One!

[jasper]

trying to get my brain around a dentist surgery escape route (its late): -
the building has basement, ground, first and second floors. single staircase from 2nd to ground, basement stair to gf surgery on one side, ground floor reception to open staircase to ff, ff doors to surgeries have fire doors with strips seals and closers, however the second floor office is via fire door at first floor level and to the final exit at ground floor is 24m (the building has detection to escape routes) according to the guide this in excess of travel, am i correct in my findings?

[kurnal]

Sounds like you need a protected stair from second floor to ground floor final exit and AFD  to L3 standard or lobby protection to stair at ground, and first floor without AFD. Open plan staircase is only ok in small buildings of up to 2 floors and basement should be separated.

[jasper]

what if they only used the second floor for storage?
surprised someone else is up this late - thanks for the quick reply

[kurnal]

Archive storage would not bother me unduly - depends how often people had to go up there and how much time they spent there. Only up because i cant go to bed till I have emptied this bottle of shiraz.

[CivvyFSO]

"But a half-drunk bloke on the internet said it was ok your honour..."

If they want to keep the office on the second floor then a good compensatory feature would possibly be detection to L3 standard.

If all the surgery rooms are behind fire doors can it be looked at as a large protected staircase? Can any risks in the reception area be minimised?

[jasper]

i had had a few myself, having now had to re-read all the work I did last night after the vino


CivvyFSO - there is only a computer at ground floor level, with a fire door to a surgery at the rear of the building to which within this surgery is a fire door to the basement, so that could be an option

It was one of those occasions when you know it is not right and the building has been the same for years and not wanting the client to spend a fortune to reduce the risk to an acceptable level

[FORRIE]

Jasper,
In all fire safety problems, follow the applicable guide, in this case Healthcare Premises issued by HM Government.

[jasper]

Jasper,
In all fire safety problems, follow the applicable guide, in this case Healthcare Premises issued by HM Government.

I always like to address the alternative methods as well as the government guidance

[Ken Taylor]

These 'low risk' storage areas can tend to become working areas as the chairs and desks appear followed by the photocopiers, etc. Unless you are looking at something that can only logically continue to be used for storage purposes with occasional access it's worth treating it as a working area and responding along the lines advised above. Although you are only required to deal wth the existing situation, this sort of thing can tend to produce greater risk in future with change of use or occupancy when there is a general assumption by the duty-holder that the physical arrangements of the premises are OK as having been 'accepted' by the FRS or BCO but the uses to which particular rooms or floors are put is significantly different.

[kurnal]

oops - posted in the wrong thread.

[slubberdegullion]

Jasper,

I would be most concerned about the reception within the staircase here.  I know you say it's only a computer but it must sit on a desk and have a chair and there must be some paper work around, maybe a bin....

Think of who is in the building.  It's a dentists' surgery.  Now dentists use various techniques and it is not unfeasible that there may be persons in the building under a certain amount of sedation.  Patients like this take time to get moving if they need to evacuate.

What if there just happened to be a fire in the reception area in the staircase?  It wouldn't be great.

It probably wouldn't be a huge disruption or a major expense to empty the staircase completely.  If this was done then the travel distance you talk about would be irrelevant and the second floor would be fine as it is.

Look at kurnal's first post - not his last (don't know what he was on about there!)

Stu