Article 27 and obstruction of fire officers

[davio1960]

Has any one from an enforcement team used article 27 for collecting relevent information...maintenance and test records, staff training, lease agreements etc... and not received the required answers in the requested time period?
If so what did your FRS do?
Regards Davio

[Ricardo]

Hi Davio1960

Based In Scotland myself, but touch wood never had any problems to date, although some people can be damn awkward,and reluctant to spare their prescious time. We have similar powers, but as yet never had to take samples/dismantle/or arrange to have anything tested.

Also never had the experience of requesting to see lease agreements, are you having problems in a multi occ for example? would be interested to hear your experiences if so.

[val]

Hi Davio1960

We have been actively encouraging our inspectors/auditors to exercise their powers under Art 27.
99% of the time this can be done politely and constructively but it gives wide ranging powers which FRS have been reluctant to use. I see no problem in requiring the info needed to decide who the responsible person is, or demanding, (without the use of force), entry. If unreasonably refused the person is potentially guilt of obstruction under 32(2)(d). If refused entry, another tack in extremis, is to request attendance of local bobby who is empoyered under some recent legislation to arrest anyone who is committing any offence, even if the enforcing authority is someone else. Although we have never used this, I suspect it concentrates minds.

[Dinnertime Dave]

If refused entry, another tack in extremis, is to request attendance of local bobby who is empoyered under some recent legislation to arrest anyone who is committing any offence, even if the enforcing authority is someone else. Although we have never used this, I suspect it concentrates minds.

Val, I’ve heard of this approach in an operational incident but not as an enforcing officer.

We can stand on the pavement spouting our powers of entry but if the doors locked you aren’t getting in.

Now it’s my understanding that obstructing a fire officer isn’t an arrestable offence but obstructing a police officer is - hence the asking the police officer to use his powers on entry and riding in on his back. But not literally.

[CivvyFSO]

Its part of the powers under Sec 20 of the HSW Act where we can take a constable with us. The constable won't actually have any powers of entry unless he turns up with a warrant.

[val]

Just to prove that I am an anorak;

Section 24 (1)(a) seems to just about cover it. You can get arrested for anything! This, of course is a preportionate response to the deadly times we live in and the Police would never abuse this....


Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005
2005 CHAPTER 15


“24 Arrest without warrant: constables (1) A constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a) anyone who is about to commit an offence;
(b) anyone who is in the act of committing an offence;
(c) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be about to commit an offence;
(d) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an offence.
(2) If a constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence has been committed, he may arrest without a warrant anyone whom he has reasonable grounds to suspect of being guilty of it.
(3) If an offence has been committed, a constable may arrest without a warrant—
(a) anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.
(4) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1), (2) or (3) is exercisable only if the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (5) it is necessary to arrest the person in question.