EMS radio system faults ???

[Benzerari]

Hi Guys;

I am not sure if you agree with me that radio fire alarm systems are generally different from a hard wired analogue addressable system, probably engineers who have dealt with wireless fire alarm systems such as EMS 5000 series, may have seen a panel status showing 76 faults and sort of amount of faults...etc

However, when opening a radio device and replacing its batteries i.e. a ‘Tamper fault’ and ‘New head faults’... would come up… so my simple concern is:

What is the best way to clear ‘Tamper fault’? And

What is the best way to clear ‘New head fault’?

I have tried EMS technical support but they were really busy!

Thank you

[Graeme]

silence each individual fault and reset each fault.

sometimes sounders need to be isolated/activated to reset .

don't think you should be getting new head coming up from a battery change.

this normally applies if you change type or detector sensitivity

[Davro]

Hmmmm not too sure about that one but i have just taken over a contract of which is a network of four panels with about 300 devices and one panel had been smashed up and the others have approx 50 faults on each.However i have reported all this to ems and they said an engineer can fix it all in 1 day,but last week i had a call out there because they could not silence the alarm and ems said it will turn off after 1/2 hour well it went on for 5 hours.Great a council estate of youths swearing at me on arrival,spoke to ems and they cant explain why,but i do know that if a device comes back as a fault you can disable it then renable then reset,it should be fine then if not set it in a fire condition then reset.And as for tamper faults most of my detectors had the batteries stolen.Customer spent £70000 trying to get this system to work now he wants a hardwired system and remove all ems kit.Do you think i can pass some of the kit as new as it is 5 years old? Or shall i keep them as spares.

[Chris Houston]

Do you think i can pass some of the kit as new as it is 5 years old? Or shall i keep them as spares.

What company is it that you work for?

[Davro]

I am in the process of comissioning a four panel network and have no problems with it but when it is installed in a council estates then you have got problems as no-one knows how to operate it and if it is left unlocked kids break it up thinking it will stop the detectors working.

[Davro]

When i said new i ment most of them pass as new and i wondered if ems would take them back recondition them,then sell them off again.But i do have several ems systems i service and in the right places give u no hassle at all.

[Benzerari]

silence each individual fault and reset each fault.

I have tried that but it did not clear it

sometimes sounders need to be isolated/activated to reset .

I have tried that it works for so many and did not work for few of them I still do not know why!

don't think you should be getting new head coming up from a battery change.

this normally applies if you change type or detector sensitivity

That's what happened when tried to change around 700 device's batteries of a Networked EMS systems of three panels, some of the devices came up as 'New head fault', I though they were deleted from the config due too their batteries were flat for quite long time, this is just my guessing..., when fitted new batteries they came up again with the original location text, my interpretation is that they have to be re-LoggedON properly again...

This is just my interpretation.

[Benzerari]

Hmmmm not too sure about that one but i have just taken over a contract of which is a network of four panels with about 300 devices and one panel had been smashed up and the others have approx 50 faults on each.However i have reported all this to ems and they said an engineer can fix it all in 1 day,but last week i had a call out there because they could not silence the alarm and ems said it will turn off after 1/2 hour well it went on for 5 hours.Great a council estate of youths swearing at me on arrival,spoke to ems and they cant explain why,but i do know that if a device comes back as a fault you can disable it then renable then reset,it should be fine then if not set it in a fire condition then reset.And as for tamper faults most of my detectors had the batteries stolen.Customer spent £70000 trying to get this system to work now he wants a hardwired system and remove all ems kit.Do you think i can pass some of the kit as new as it is 5 years old? Or shall i keep them as spares.

Your reply is really funny, because you have just reminded me of some experience I had more than 5 years ago and I had seen most of what you have stated, I just remember one day when we decided to call an EMS engineer to sort out our faults, as he had obviously his advanced software to use it for survey and signal level testing... in different location on site,... and by the way he said to us suddenly there is another transceiver around here we said that's all we have a Panel and 96 devices he insisted because he could see with his way of survey that a transmitter does exist around,... then the care taker opened for us a very old reception was locked up for ages and that's where we found that transmitter hidden...

Since then, the boss decided to give any call out of EMS stuff to a private Ex- EMS engineer...

As a result we lost our chance to learn how to deal with this stuff...!

[Benzerari]

Do you think i can pass some of the kit as new as it is 5 years old? Or shall i keep them as spares.

What company is it that you work for?

As far as I know, EMS device are 10 times expensive than a normal analogue addressable ones...

[Davro]

Shame really as i quite like the ems kit but like i said on a council estate where the caretaker takes no interest in it,just keeps moaning about other things so any faults are not picked up until next service (3 months away). My personal advice was to have a mains/battery operated one in there flat then a heat in the hall way and a smoke outside in communal areas and that way any problems you can fix asap.Then send out a letter saying if anyone tampers with devices they will be fined by the council.Do you think this will work.Would save a lot of time and hassle.

[Chris Houston]

Who is it that you advice to send out these letters stating that councils will fine people?  What powers would the council use to fine individuals?

[Chris Houston]

Monkeh,

I've deleted your post, sorry we don't allow swearing on FireNet.

[David Rooney]

Most likely you will get new head faults when you change batteries.... are they lithiums or Duracell ??

Some basic info that may be of use...

Lithium Battery Change

Ensure all Zones are in test
Ensure all devices are either Active or in Test (devices will not report new battery values if disabled)
Where possible change batteries close to panel to ensure that radio signal with new battery information is received at the panel
Where a device does not show new battery information on the set up the device should be powered down and re-powered at the panel and then left at the panel for 10 minutes for all information to be transmitted
Devices may report 'New Head' fault after battery change.  Fault may not appear for 24hours after battery change - advise customer to silence and reset any faults showing as 'New Head'.

[Benzerari]

Most likely you will get new head faults when you change batteries.... are they lithiums or Duracell ??.

We have changed all Duracell bateries, not the lethium one,

Some basic info that may be of use...

Lithium Battery Change

Ensure all Zones are in test
Ensure all devices are either Active or in Test (devices will not report new battery values if disabled)
Where possible change batteries close to panel to ensure that radio signal with new battery information is received at the panel
Where a device does not show new battery information on the set up the device should be powered down and re-powered at the panel and then left at the panel for 10 minutes for all information to be transmitted
Devices may report 'New Head' fault after battery change.  Fault may not appear for 24hours after battery change - advise customer to silence and reset any faults showing as 'New Head'.

Thanks for this info Dave, I have done both EMS courses hardware and software in 2003 but it is my first time to see 'New Head Fault', probably EMS softwares been upgraded and updated several times since, I still have not understood what means that 'New Head Fault'? is the device been deleted from the system due to its batteries  flat? or the device just been detected for the first time by the main panel? even without pressing the logon button by someone?

[David Rooney]

The EMS software hasn't changed in a hundred years lol... apart from the SGC software for the Mark 3 panels.

The courses are fine but to be honest they don't tell you half of what you need to know.

The "new head" can come up for all sorts of reasons, generally if you change its sensitivity and put it back, or down powering the device - eg changing batteries, or simply replace the head (the sensing element, not the radio card)... once the devices are logged on initially they are on forever unless you delete them. Changing batteries won't affect that and you don't need to log the device back on again.

The problem is that alkaline devices do not report their battery condition. The length of life left in a battery is determined basically by a countdown timer in the panel, and this timer gets reset to "5 years" ish when the battery info gets to the panel, this can take up to 24 hours as its quite a low priority.

Obviously if a battery fails or nears its lower limits then the panel reports a "Batt A Fail"....