More weird and wonderful alarms!

[AnthonyB]

This one is a very old Gent's system at an office building.

It's 24V DC this time so not instantly 'illegal', but isn't in the best of nick. In the long term I would advise total ripout, but as the building may only have a medium term future at the most (owner may decide to flatten) the client may be reluctant to replace.

Mostly vacant, no high risk uses, processes or user groups.

Questions:
-Could you realistically add smoke detectors? (It's manual only at the moment, but some L5 cover may be needed).
-The battery set up looks a bit poor, would it need a 'proper' fire alarm battery set up or as long as it works would be OK.
-There appears to be no fault monitoring ability, is this essential or could daily battery checks & weekly call point tests with service visits be OK temporarily.
- The call point has had it's glass broken and as no spares remain someone has taken the point off and reconnected it with both wires in the same terminal instead of 2 seperate ones - I assume this is to complete the zone circuit so it still works?
- In the photo with the light switch I assume that there are two sets of wiring in the conduit otherwise how could the lights & alarm be together?

[Wiz]

This one is a very old Gent's system at an office building.

It's 24V DC this time so not instantly 'illegal', but isn't in the best of nick. In the long term I would advise total ripout, but as the building may only have a medium term future at the most (owner may decide to flatten) the client may be reluctant to replace.

Mostly vacant, no high risk uses, processes or user groups.

Questions:
-Could you realistically add smoke detectors? (It's manual only at the moment, but some L5 cover may be needed).
-The battery set up looks a bit poor, would it need a 'proper' fire alarm battery set up or as long as it works would be OK.
-There appears to be no fault monitoring ability, is this essential or could daily battery checks & weekly call point tests with service visits be OK temporarily.
- The call point has had it's glass broken and as no spares remain someone has taken the point off and reconnected it with both wires in the same terminal instead of 2 seperate ones - I assume this is to complete the zone circuit so it still works?
- In the photo with the light switch I assume that there are two sets of wiring in the conduit otherwise how could the lights & alarm be together?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/contactacb/FireNet/scammelllairdIP.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/contactacb/FireNet/scammell-IPbatteries.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/contactacb/FireNet/scammell-bgunoglasswiredto1terminal.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/contactacb/FireNet/scammell-bguandlight.jpg

I saw a few of these when I was a trainee wizard. I even saw the even earlier version that had mechanical drop-flag zone indicators, instead of the high-tech filament lamps in this one!

It was so long ago, and a touch of memory loss has crept in over the past few years, but I definitely remember one version of this type of panel that could support automatic detectors. However I am sure the one I am thinking of had zone monitoring by end of line resistors, So the one pictured possibly might not.

The power supply obviously is nowhere near the recommendations needed for at least the past 20 years, No fuse failure monitoring, no battery disconnection monitoring etc. etc.  I'm pretty sure that the original batteries required for this sort of charger were those in the Chloride LCP wet cell range. It wouldn't at all surprise me if the charger couldn't charge the current battery type properly anyway. I would also guess that the battery couldn't re-charge quick enough after a big discharge without manual intervention (trickle charge/fast charge switch?

Keep the photos coming Anthony B - at the very least they create a nostalgic feeling in my addled brain!

[kurnal]

Bet its a council owned building?

[John Dragon]

Have seen a few of these, not for the last 10 yrs or so though.
Any engineer even thinking about touching this needs a P45.

[redbadge]

Is the washing up liquid bottle an integral part of the system, or an optional accessory?

[John Webb]

Congratulations on getting the photos included! Does make it easier to understand.

Re the combined call-point and lightswitch arrangement, I think this was legal under CP1013, provided the wiring was mains voltage rated. But of course it does not match the current standards re separation etc.

Call points were in series, I recall, holding a relay in. Operation of a call point or a breakage in the wire would release the relay and raise the alarm, so the circuit is 'monitored' to a limited extent.

[jayjay]

I think if I was still a enforcing officer and came across this I would be issuing notices to the owner/occupier.
Regardles of whether it works or not it can not be considerd as reliable.

[Benzerari]

This one is a very old Gent's system at an office building.

It's 24V DC this time so not instantly 'illegal', but isn't in the best of nick. In the long term I would advise total ripout, but as the building may only have a medium term future at the most (owner may decide to flatten) the client may be reluctant to replace.

Mostly vacant, no high risk uses, processes or user groups.

Questions:
-Could you realistically add smoke detectors? (It's manual only at the moment, but some L5 cover may be needed).
-The battery set up looks a bit poor, would it need a 'proper' fire alarm battery set up or as long as it works would be OK.
-There appears to be no fault monitoring ability, is this essential or could daily battery checks & weekly call point tests with service visits be OK temporarily.
- The call point has had it's glass broken and as no spares remain someone has taken the point off and reconnected it with both wires in the same terminal instead of 2 seperate ones - I assume this is to complete the zone circuit so it still works?
- In the photo with the light switch I assume that there are two sets of wiring in the conduit otherwise how could the lights & alarm be together?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/contactacb/FireNet/scammelllairdIP.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/contactacb/FireNet/scammell-IPbatteries.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/contactacb/FireNet/scammell-bgunoglasswiredto1terminal.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh130/contactacb/FireNet/scammell-bguandlight.jpg

This is even worst to what I have seen some times

[AnthonyB]

It's a former ship building yard's admin block that shut in 1993 (& wasn't having much spent in those last few years as they knew they were going down the pan) and is being re-let by the new site owner. No current servicing records, just weekly tests and guess the previous maintenance was in house

They've put new EL in so the site has short to medium future, but I don't think the alarm has!

Just looking for info in case the argument may come back that it a) works & b) isn't 240V.

[AnthonyB]

Whilst on the photos, found this in a unit in a large 90's build leisure complex, I don't think this is allowed!

[Allen Higginson]

I'm Guessing Council Spark For This Addition!!!!

[Chris Houston]

Anthony I don't think that panel is EN54 compliant.  :lol:

[Graeme]

That is a classic example of a system i would walk away from.

no matter how bad  it is before you looked at it, you will be the last one to touch it and all the problems that come with it.

[manchesterfire]

it looks like the old chloride factory i use to service in manchester they didn't care about FA system or E/L i refused to service it after first visit, i don't like putting my signature on crap but my company found another mug to service it