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Author Topic: Holiday lets  (Read 22415 times)

Offline kurnal

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Holiday lets
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2008, 02:57:29 PM »
The definition used to determine whether you are eligible to pay business rates for your business run from the home may provide the the other half of the answer nearlythere.  If persons are employed to work in your home  for any reason other than as  domestic servants  then its a workplace.

If there is a room dedicated to trade or business then that room is a workplace and business rates are payable. If you work in the corner of the living room its a dwelling and no business rates are payable. Dont ask me to justify the legal background to these statements though. I cant.
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Offline davio1960

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Holiday lets
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2008, 03:26:08 PM »
Hi All
PhilB has cleared up one point quite nicely.
FSO applies to "places" and then provides guidance on the different types of places the order is enforced.

I haven't ever seen anything in the order that says it has to be a business for FSO to be enforced. Otherwise how would enforcement be placed on the common areas of blocks of flats or charity shops or in the party tent paid for by a company to say taa for the sword of british industry or some-other event inside or outdoors where no money crosses hands.

Interesting that most people consider the order to apply to a holiday let.
Housing Act doesn't apply cos its not a perminant residance.
Sports ground Act ...no not that either.
Fire Safety Order....well then ...
Q1 what is to be enforced? article 4 general fire precautions...yes I can see that
Q2 Who is responsible person?
Is the holiday let now an extension of the occupants domestic arrangements?
Is the owner of the building the RP?
What would be the situation if the lease agreement pined down the lease holder as the respopnsible person for the maintenance of the general fire precautions...
Its too complicated and as Phil B stated let the courts decide...but which fire authority will take a case forward!
Me thinks "not mine" even for failing to comply with an enforcement notice.
To me this is very soft sand and any case is sinking fast

Davio1960
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Regards Davio1960

Offline Ignatius Knight

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Holiday lets
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2008, 09:41:17 PM »
I recently attended a 'Fire Safety Risk Assessment Workshop' funded by the Scottish Governement to raise awarness of the new regulations affecting bed and breakfasts and the like. There was someone there with a holiday let and someone with long term lets [>6months]. It was stated that the holiday let was covered by the regulations and the long term let was not.

The holiday let owner was told that all the regs applying to b & b's applied to their property.
So why no mention of self closing fire doors in previous posters lists of requirments they would ask of holiday lets. This is not the message given out on the course, which was that  the same rules apply to b & B's.
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Offline nearlythere

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Holiday lets
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2008, 08:39:24 AM »
Quote from: kurnal
The definition used to determine whether you are eligible to pay business rates for your business run from the home may provide the the other half of the answer nearlythere.  If persons are employed to work in your home  for any reason other than as  domestic servants  then its a workplace.

If there is a room dedicated to trade or business then that room is a workplace and business rates are payable. If you work in the corner of the living room its a dwelling and no business rates are payable. Dont ask me to justify the legal background to these statements though. I cant.
So what you mean K is that if I don't pay business rates for my little corner, when I am trying to give an issue my 100%, my wife has the legal right to turn the washing machine on for 120 mins at 60 degrees Intensive Stains - Extra Spin?  
Oh well, the price of working from home.
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We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline nearlythere

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Holiday lets
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2008, 09:43:42 PM »
Quote from: kurnal
The definition used to determine whether you are eligible to pay business rates for your business run from the home may provide the the other half of the answer nearlythere.  If persons are employed to work in your home  for any reason other than as  domestic servants  then its a workplace.

If there is a room dedicated to trade or business then that room is a workplace and business rates are payable. If you work in the corner of the living room its a dwelling and no business rates are payable. Dont ask me to justify the legal background to these statements though. I cant.
Thats my point K. A carer is not a domestic servant. The premises are the occupier's dwelling but the carer's workplace. Would RRO not apply to the carer? A dwelling is a dwelling because someone permanently lives in it. It is not a dwelling for the carer who works in it.
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We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline PhilB

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Holiday lets
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2008, 10:28:59 PM »
Quote from: nearlythere
Thats my point K. A carer is not a domestic servant. The premises are the occupier's dwelling but the carer's workplace. Would RRO not apply to the carer? A dwelling is a dwelling because someone permanently lives in it. It is not a dwelling for the carer who works in it.
No the FSO does not apply the HASAW Act does...safe person concept. The FSO does not apply to domestic premises.
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Offline John Dragon

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Holiday lets
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2008, 09:59:29 AM »
I'm sorry I asked now, if you lot have to argue about it, what chance does Joe Bloggs have?
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Offline nearlythere

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Holiday lets
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2008, 10:38:38 AM »
Quote from: John Dragon
I'm sorry I asked now, if you lot have to argue about it, what chance does Joe Bloggs have?
We are not arguing John. We are debating. If I was arguing I would be shouting, swearing, questioning other persons parenthood and generally making wild accusations about their ability to be a member of the human race. As it is I am presenting my views, listening to the views of others, deliberating and evaluating opinion. Then, if nobody accepts my view, I start shouting, swearing, questioning other persons parenthood and generally making wild accusations about their ability to be a member of the human race.
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We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline John Dragon

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Holiday lets
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2008, 11:51:44 AM »
Quote from: nearlythere
Quote from: John Dragon
I'm sorry I asked now, if you lot have to argue about it, what chance does Joe Bloggs have?
We are not arguing John. We are debating. If I was arguing I would be shouting, swearing, questioning other persons parenthood and generally making wild accusations about their ability to be a member of the human race. As it is I am presenting my views, listening to the views of others, deliberating and evaluating opinion. Then, if nobody accepts my view, I start shouting, swearing, questioning other persons parenthood and generally making wild accusations about their ability to be a member of the human race.
I had noticed!
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Offline PhilB

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Holiday lets
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2008, 11:59:17 AM »
and I never argue or SHOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Clevelandfire

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Holiday lets
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2008, 04:00:57 PM »
Quote from: John Dragon
I'm sorry I asked now, if you lot have to argue about it, what chance does Joe Bloggs have?
WELL IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THEN WHY DONT YOU TAKE YOURE MEASLEY INSIGNIFICANT SMELLY HOLIDAY LET QUESTIONS AND TAKE A HIKE....

Just kidding John!

Quite often the law or legislation is such that even the most seasoned fire safety proffesionals can't definitively answer certain questions until case law has been created on the subject.

Its exactly because of the debate that goes on here that Joe Bloggs should hopefully get a wide range of views and opinion and become hopefully a bit more edcuated on the topic.

I know its annoying that sometimes we cant answer posers to the grey area topics, believe me it frustrates us to unfortunately English law is seldom black and white and is open to wide interpretation.
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Clevelandfire

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Holiday lets
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2008, 04:06:13 PM »
Quote from: kurnal
The definition used to determine whether you are eligible to pay business rates for your business run from the home may provide the the other half of the answer nearlythere.  If persons are employed to work in your home  for any reason other than as  domestic servants  then its a workplace.

If there is a room dedicated to trade or business then that room is a workplace and business rates are payable. If you work in the corner of the living room its a dwelling and no business rates are payable. Dont ask me to justify the legal background to these statements though. I cant.
By the by Kurnal I note you are 1666 posts

If that not worth a pint of Kronenburg in celebration I dont know what is

Of course it means you should buy all members a Kronie too you know

* Please note other lagers are available and these forums to not abdocate the use of advertising. Terms and conditions apply. Persons of 70 years old must be accompanied by their parents to qualify.
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Offline Steven N

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Holiday lets
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2008, 05:58:45 PM »
Quote from: kurnal
By the by Kurnal I note you are 1666 posts

If that not worth a pint of Kronenburg in celebration I dont know what is
I take it you actually meant the rather fine Kronenburg 1664?
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These are my views and not the views of my employer

Offline kurnal

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Holiday lets
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2008, 10:07:13 PM »
Quote from: Clevelandfire
By the by Kurnal I note you are 1666 posts

If that not worth a pint of Kronenburg in celebration I dont know what is

Of course it means you should buy all members a Kronie too you know

* Please note other lagers are available and these forums to not abdocate the use of advertising. Terms and conditions apply. Persons of 70 years old must be accompanied by their parents to qualify.
Whoops its 1668 now! Missed the opportunity ! Oh well.

Personally I would prefer a pint of Newcastle Brown anyway Clevelandfire.   But it would be my pleasure to buy you several drinks if only to watch your skills countering the effect of the wind.
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Offline jokar

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Holiday lets
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2008, 10:07:28 PM »
1066, 1666 and 1966 are all rather relevant dates aren't they? rather than some strange pale coloured liquid.
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