Fire Escapes

[newbie]

Hey there everyone

Im part of a church group recently formed to advise on H&S issues including fire.  We are going to be doing our fire risk assessments next week and I know that the fire escape from one of the first floor buildings will come up.  The escape has thankfully never been used "on mass" but is over 30 years old and showing.  Someone responsible for the buildings tolds me that they checked it and found it to be "safe and slip resistent"  As lovely as this person is Im not sure of their position to make a judgement? Should this be an issue?  And mainly Im concerned about the structure of the escape, how will we know if it is safe for possibly 200 people to start thundering down it in an emergency?  Can someone, the fire service check it?

Phew, also any advice about the fire risk assessment would be great and although its not fire.. does anyone know of a church that has carried out a risk assessment for full immersion baptism?


Thanks muchly for any advice anyone can give on anything

[Chris Houston]

Newbie, welcome to the forum, you are in the right place.

We have a member on here who is a church expert, I am sure he will post a reply shortly, but can you just clarify what you are worried about with regards to the escape.  That it is too narrow, too slippy, or not strong enough to hold lots of people?  

What is it that makes you worry? Does it look corroded or something?

[Chris Houston]

PS have moved this to Fire Safety, you'll get a better responce in there.

[jokar]

Advise on undertaking a Fire Risk Assessment is available from www.communities.gov.uk  If you are not an expert and are dealing with a large building you may have to seek professional advice.  The small to medium places of assembly guide may be what you need if you have less than 300 people.  Starting from scrtah if you know nothing about fire or fire risk assessment can be a daunting prospect.

The fire service now are an enforcer under the RR(FS)O and therefore all the fire safety duties are yours.  They have to give advice under the Fire and Rescue Act but that advice will vary dependent on your location in the UK.

[nearlythere]

Hey there everyone

Im part of a church group recently formed to advise on H&S issues including fire.  We are going to be doing our fire risk assessments next week and I know that the fire escape from one of the first floor buildings will come up.  The escape has thankfully never been used "on mass" but is over 30 years old and showing.  Someone responsible for the buildings tolds me that they checked it and found it to be "safe and slip resistent"  As lovely as this person is Im not sure of their position to make a judgement? Should this be an issue?  And mainly Im concerned about the structure of the escape, how will we know if it is safe for possibly 200 people to start thundering down it in an emergency?  Can someone, the fire service check it?

Phew, also any advice about the fire risk assessment would be great and although its not fire.. does anyone know of a church that has carried out a risk assessment for full immersion baptism?


Thanks muchly for any advice anyone can give on anything

No the F&R Service will not inspect and certify it. If you have any doubt whatsoever about its safety you should have it examined by a qualified structural engineer. An unqualified lovely person with the approach "it looks ok to me" is a complete no no.
I can't see a significant finding in a full immersion baptism situation.

[John Webb]

I think I'm the 'church expert' Chris so kindly refers to.

You need the Guides on either 'Small and Medium places of public assembly' if your building accomodates less than 300 people, or the guide to 'Large places of public assembly' if 300 or over, from the CLG department's website; the downloads are free but lengthy.

Better still, go to the Churches Main Committee website www.cmainc.org.uk and follow the Fire Safety link to their guide specifically aimed at church buildings. It's more relevent and shorter than the CLG guides, and is also available for free.

If you have anyone used to risk assessments under H&S at Work legislation, they will find the Fire Risk Assessment format fairly similar.

Regarding the fire escape, I would suggest if you have an architect for your building, you consult them about getting expert advice.

Do come back if there are any further queries; either post on the Forum or use the Personal Message (PM) system to contact me.

[Chris Houston]

I think I'm the 'church expert' Chris so kindly refers to.

You got it, knew you would be on the case soon

[The Reiver]

full immersion baptism

Although not my subject (not even close) I have sat next to me (eating his butty) my workshop technician who is also a Lay Preacher for our local Diocese. I showed him your post and he has taken it rather seriously. He has asked the following questions because apparently a church in his area has carried out this R/A and he will try and get the info.

1. Is the area (vessel, pool, font ??) for the full immersion baptism a rigid and permanent structure or portable / inflatable ? Or are we talking river / lake here ?
2. Is the area (??) for the full immersion baptism heated ? (see below)
3. What age groups are involved here ? (i.e. coronary / stroke possibilities if not heated)
4. Has the church a qualified first aider on stand bye during baptisms ?

All beyond me but my marrer is keen to help !!

[messy]

John

Although I can get the home page, I am unable to open any others - or even see a fire safety page.

Am I doing something wrong??

[jokar]

You have to log in.

[John Webb]

Messy: They've revamped the website since I last looked a few months ago. I'll contact them and find out what's happened to the link to the Fire Risk Assessment document.

Newbie: the points made by The Reiver in post #8 do need to be considered in the light of what happens if the building has to be cleared due to an alarm of fire at the time that the actual baptisms are taking place. And if outdoors either using an artificial pool or a natural water feature, then the Guide to Outdoor events should be also be consulted.
There is (or was) a potential fire hazard with heated baptismal pools, especially if made of plastic/glass-fibre and electrically heated. I have read reports in the past of a few occasions when the water was drained off but heater was left on, resulting in overheating and an eventual fire. More of a property protection matter probably  than life-safety, but I would bear it in mind.

[Ken Taylor]

You haven't stated the denomination but most of those practising believers' baptism will have issued guidance on risk assessment to their member or associated churches. The risk assessments for baptism will go beyond fire risk (heaters and electrics) into the realms of general risk assessment and manual handling assessment under health and safety at work legislation - but should be quite straight forward. Participant health and fitness issues will, of course, be important!

[newbie]

full immersion baptism

Although not my subject (not even close) I have sat next to me (eating his butty) my workshop technician who is also a Lay Preacher for our local Diocese. I showed him your post and he has taken it rather seriously. He has asked the following questions because apparently a church in his area has carried out this R/A and he will try and get the info.

1. Is the area (vessel, pool, font ??) for the full immersion baptism a rigid and permanent structure or portable / inflatable ? Or are we talking river / lake here ?
2. Is the area (??) for the full immersion baptism heated ? (see below)
3. What age groups are involved here ? (i.e. coronary / stroke possibilities if not heated)
4. Has the church a qualified first aider on stand bye during baptisms ?

All beyond me but my marrer is keen to help !!

Lol, I hope my questions didnt spoil his butty!  Poor bloke....  Any help would be appreciated.  Thankyou muchly.

1.  The pool is a permanent structure, build into the stage at the front of the churc
2.  The pool is heated overnight before use so is bath temp.  
3.  Its adult baptism    generally, not normally anyone younger than 14 as far as I
     know
4.  The church congregationnormally has four doctors in it!  But just in case we     also have several nurses and qualified first aiders

[newbie]

Thankyou so much everyone for taking the time to reply to my post.  

Ken.... we are a Baptist church and the BU do not publish any guidance on risk assessing full immersion baptism, nor do the Church of England, who only talk about babies. I couldnt find anything else.  Yes, Im thinking along the same lines with the manual handling and also the enthusiastic band who play (leads and all!) just behind the pool. Arrrrgggg

John... thankyou for the links and I will find out how the pool is heated, that is a very good point.  I read about a preacher who was electrecuted in Texas because of corosion directly on the elements of the tank I think, and that made the whole pool live!

Chris... I think the fire escape does look coroded yes.  It is about 30years old, I dont think (and this is only by looking at it) it would take a mass evacuation.  

Nearlythere.... I agree with what you say.  the gentlman in question is lovely, but I dont know what his background is, perhaps I should find out, maybe he was a structural engineer?!  If not I think I will tactfully need to find a way to suggest this!

Thankyou, thankyou everyone, I feel so welcomed here =D  Id love to say I'll return the favor, but Im an HR person and this H&S and fire safety is one huge learning curve to me!

[William 29]

I have conducted fire risk assessments in several large (800 seater) and small rural churches, including the one I attend.  Happy to provide you with any advice you need in addition to the good advice you have had already.