Break glass bolts on final fire exit doors.

[Rocha]

I have recently been to an office building with approximately 170 occupants, 5 storeys tall and with 3 escape stairwells. The final fire exits from the stairwells were installed with ceramic break glass bolts, with hammer and relevant signage as they have had problems with unauthorised use.

Are these suitable for use on final fire exit doors in office buildings.

Rocha

[Redone]

Push bar or pads for doors where over 60 would exit, I guess if you lose one of the exits, it's possible this could occur, but the time taken for people to enter the stairwell, then descend to the exit in a disciplined work force, wardens should be there to usher folks out.

Prove by drill.

There’s some nice plastic frangible inserts available now to replace the ceramic/glass bolts.

[Rocha]

Thanks Redone,

If an exit is to be used by more than 60 persons and is fitted with a pushbar opening device, what could be used to prevent unauthorised use.  Keeping in mind that only one simple means of opening should be used for escape.

Rocha

[kurnal]

Yes but owners also have to balance other risks as well- such as  the very significant risk of goods walking out the door- that can run into millions in the retail/distribution industry, or the risk of persons opening the exit for a quick fag and not closing it leaving the building vulnerable to intruders. Frangible inserts just encourage unauthorised use.

It always ends up a compromise. I often see panic devices on doors backed up with redlam bolts and dont usually feel too worried by it. Nature and discipline  of persons who may need to use the door is the major consideration.

[Donna]

Kurnal,
10 years ago I worked in a car accessory factory which moved into one of the Old NAAFI warehouses, when I was made one of the Health and Safety persons, (after an employee had a back accident and the HSE were involved, which THEN made them have to comply with basic Health and Safety in the workplace)
So this guy and me had to take home these "Telephone directory" sized H & S manuals and digest as much as we could, so the next day we decided to go around the complete factory, and take note of anything that stood out,
"Girl's sorry you cant wear flip flops anymore" and "Everyone has to wear a hard hat when in the factory"
Also apart from one of the un signed doors in the canteen, which when opened, led to a "SHEER DROP" we also discovered that,
ALL the Push bar fire exits around the huge warehouse were padlocked with chains!

This aparently was done when the NAAFI occupied the premises....as Half the warehouse contents were "Lost" in this way....No wonder the NAAFI disbanded in the mid 90s!
But you wouldnt believe how far that large organisations go to, and break all the rules untill you actually see it with your own eyes!

[nearlythere]

Yep Donna. Quite believable alright. I've seen it all too often as an IO. Problem was that my bosses thought it best practice to smack wrists and tick off with a very serious wag of the finger. Don't really know if it worked as following the normally satisfactory re-inspection the file was returned to the dungeon never to reappear.
Fire safety in the workplace is only as good as the employer wants it to be.

[messy]

I have seen an increase in Redlam bolts on final exits and less attractive ad hoc security fittings since the smoking ban was introduced.

As far as Redlams & Panic bolts, perhaps the answer is a push pad which breaks a fragible tube to open the door in one simple operation. This would provide the panic/push fitting and deter those nasty smokers from using the fire exit.

Does any such fitting exist?? (or should I be applying for TV's Dragon's Den with a prototype?)

[Rocha]

Messy,

I would have kept that idea to yourself.  Everyone will be rushing to their local patent office in the morning!!!!

Rocha

[Redone]

All points perfectly valid, you could consider CCTV and audible alarms on the doors.

Changing occupancy, I've noticed quite a few care homes have removed the 'Push bar/pad to open' as residents see the notice as an instruction.  FRA notes change of practise.  Also some doors have double handles which open in opposite directions, again to contain residents, going outside the 'one simple device' but staff training takes care of this.

Also not unusual to see a drag bolt fitted as a further means of security where panic type devices are fitted.  Saw this last week where a flasher keeps appearing outside an exit, staff don't feel to safe, so fitted the bolt.  Better if someone snook round with a baseball ball to help him on his way!

[Jason Miller]

How about the STI Exit Stopper alarm? Lots of stores use these to stop shoplifters using fire exits and they work very well. plus, they don't cost much

Jason

[AnthonyB]

From drill experience in multi-occ buildings of similar or larger size the redlam bolts have led to injuries from crushing as people think the door is locked & lacerations from breaking them by hand (especially when the cheaper glass tubes are used in place of the original Ceramtube).

In all cases panic bolts have been fitted instead due to the numbers using the route and their familiarity (or otherwise) with the route and fastenings. Where unauthorised access is an issue the doors are wired into the common intruder alarm to remain monitored in day mode as well as night

[Midland Retty]

Id always try and push for alarmed doors first and foremost wherever possible.

Security is a big issue for retailers but I just feel you can't really fit "break to exit" type devices on public MOE (some people are afraid to use them, think they may get billed for them if they break them, some fearful of hurting / cutting themselves or just plain and simply don't know how to use them)

Some supermarkets I have come across purposely have their final exits discharging into a locked yard . The yard is normally large enough to be classed as a place of comparitive safety buying enough time for staff to reach the yard gates and unlock them in a genuine emergency.

This has the added feature that if a shoplifter tries to steal something and go through a fire exit theyre trapped in the yard where staff can catch up with them and retrieve the stolen items.

[messy]

What is the general view here about redlam bolts in Hotels?

I recently came across a medium sized 6/7 storey Hotel catering almost exclusively for wealthy (predominantly middle eastern) guests - many who do not speak English . In addition to the main staircase, there were two secondary external staircases which are accessed using redlam bolt fixings (again to prevent smoking on the staircases).

My concerns were that tired/drunk guests from outside the UK may not understand how to use them and being a sleeping risk, the issue of bare footed guests walking over broken glass and then being expected to walk down 7 floors might be problematical.

To be fair, the risk of fire is low as the the building is very well managed and maintained and is even fully (and I mean fully) sprinklered throughout.

So are Redlam bolts OK or not in this example?

[Redone]

I wouldn't be to happy for the reasons you give, sprinklers could be taken off line, plus difficult to sneak some one in...

[kurnal]

Id always try and push for alarmed doors first and foremost wherever possible.

Security is a big issue for retailers but I just feel you can't really fit "break to exit" type devices on public MOE (some people are afraid to use them, think they may get billed for them if they break them, some fearful of hurting / cutting themselves or just plain and simply don't know how to use them)

Some supermarkets I have come across purposely have their final exits discharging into a locked yard . The yard is normally large enough to be classed as a place of comparitive safety buying enough time for staff to reach the yard gates and unlock them in a genuine emergency.

This has the added feature that if a shoplifter tries to steal something and go through a fire exit theyre trapped in the yard where staff can catch up with them and retrieve the stolen items.

I have come across several instances of doors that are alarmed with the mega blaster 127db alarms - those designed to make such an incredible noise intended to disorientate a thief. I think this is very bad practice- these things shred your ears and would deter persons from approaching the exit. Worse still I have seen them in the foot of staircases containing refuges. And the fire service isnt going to enter a building with that racket going on.