Fire Alarm

[Mushy]

If a business has an old style fire alarm system with push button call points, no battery back up and also has no control panel can they be made to bring the alarm up to modern day standards?

[wee brian]

Under the fire safety order  - Only if its not good enough for the risk

[kurnal]

What sort of business is it?

[Galeon]

If its being maintained , a risk assessment should pick up on the condition of system , and therefore be highlighted.
My advice to anyone over the years with an old set up is test it daily.
You can bang your head against a wall , the amount of times we have come across this , fire alarm equipment is always last on everyone's list , by what you describe no one in their right mind will want this old beast , but if you have advised by the maintenance company ,and a risk assessment it needs to come out , what are the chances it will happen , slim to none , so unless you make waves to an outside party , who is going to know.
I for one thought is was better when people were kept on their toes by the Brigade , doing a visit.

[jokar]

Probably will not meet the signs and signals regs and would not protect relevant persons but as Kurnal has mentioned, what type of premises is it?

[Graeme]

it can't as it does not have battery back up

[jokar]

Graeme, I need to be more succinct I think in my wording.  100 posts between us and perhaps I will get better.

[wee brian]

This signs and signals thing keeps coming up - what do the regs actually say?

[Davo]

Wee brian
The actual bit is buried in the guidance L64, cost £10 or so.
Schedule One Part One
8 'Signs requiring some form of power must be provided with a guaranteed emergency supply in the event of a power cut, unless the hazard has thereby been eliminated'

Guidance Notes
Fire Alarms 105-114

Fire alarms are included in the term 'acoustic signal'
This is defined as' a coded sound signal which is released and transmitted by a device designed for that purpose, without the use of a human or artificial voice'
Quotes further info in BS5839 and BS7443
Enforced by HSE, usual rates apply depending on seriousness of offence
Came into force 21 December 1998
Must confess it came under my radar until a friendly?? I/O pointed it out

davo

[Tom W]

Am i right in thinking

Signs that require power but are only active upon the sounding of the fire alarm do not need to comply to the signs and signals regs

[wee brian]

I suppose an exisitng system could be upgraded with a battery etc. rather than stripping it all out

(assuming its electricaly possible)

[Graeme]

Graeme, I need to be more succinct I think in my wording.  100 posts between us and perhaps I will get better.

i sure you will. stick in and good luck

[Chris Houston]

If a business has an old style fire alarm system with push button call points, no battery back up and also has no control panel can they be made to bring the alarm up to modern day standards?

Such a system is illegal under the Signs and Signals regs as they require battery back up.

[Mushy]

Thanks all

I'm not exactly sure of the size of the place as it was a casual (again) chat in the pub, I just know its a packaging suppliers. My thinking is, if the place needed a fire alarm before then it would need one now but any Fire Risk Assessment would include the necessity to update...but If its illegal under the Safety Signs and Signals then the question has been answered. Thanks

[Wiz]

Based on Davo's explanation a few posts above, I would say the recommendations would allow you to use fire alarm sounders with an artificial voice message on systems without standby power source!

I don't find the extract(s) provided as a conclusive explanation of these 'regs'.

To save myself a £10, is it possible for someone to quote the regs exactly?

Davo has quoted that part that states that fire alarms are included in 'acoustic signals' and also that part that states 'signs' require a guaranteed emergency supply. Where is the bit that says an 'acoustic signal' should be treated as a 'sign'?