Stainless Steel Extinguishers.

[The Reiver]

Go on, do tell us...!!

[Tom Sutton]

I received this email today

All three stainless steel units have been serviced and certified with no problem by ****** Fire Services Ltd.
 
The agent had no reservations at all with the issue, or about the colour.
 
Once again, many thanks to your good self and all who responded on the “Net” for a satisfactory outcome.

[AnthonyB]

Glad to hear it ended satisfactorily.

The BS recommendation (& it is just that) is grounds to replace if you have loads of money (like Sainsbury's who replaced every single cream AFFF with red EN3 in 1997/8 in one fell swoop regardless of age & took advantage of the 'super foam' extinguishers around to only put one new extinguisher at each fire point that had two*).

But otherwise it realistically has to be gradual - after all if you use extinguishers with clear labelling as required by the former BS5423 & BSEN3 and also correctly train your staff, then the colours are not as much of an issue. The clause is partly a hang over from the pre BS days of the FOC rules & FPA guidance sheets when to set off a water extinguisher you might need to do any of the following:
- Invert it
- Invert it & strike a plunger
- Strike a plunger
- remove a cap/stirrup & strike a plunger
- remove a cotter pin, lift and release a hammer at the side of the extinguisher
- screw down a valve
- uncork the container, fill the attached cup & throw at the fire

which is where the need for consistency across a building originated (and in the early days other than Nu Swift they were all coloured red then)

*They used to have two 13A rated Thorn or Kidde Thorn branded TG AFFF foams at a fire point, a practice dating back to the early 80's when L&G were their contractor, but replaced these with a single 27A rated Gloria AFFF & Imprex extinguisher

[f500]

Some very large servicing companies are replacing extinguishers due to them having reached their "20 year lifespan", wasn't this rumoured to have been considered for the revised BS 5306:3 or somewhere else i seem to vaguely recall?

[John Dragon]

Some very large servicing companies are replacing extinguishers due to them having reached their "20 year lifespan", wasn't this rumoured to have been considered for the revised BS 5306:3 or somewhere else i seem to vaguely recall?

Part of the same rumour (a few years ago) was that extinguishers were only to be serviced on a 2 year basis.

[Chris Houston]

Part of the same rumour (a few years ago) was that extinguishers were only to be serviced on a 2 year basis.

This is the norm in Germany.

[Psuedonym]

Only Co2's have a limited lifespan - 30 yrs: Pressure test ten years from new. 2nd pressure test 10 years following first. Scrap 10 years following 2nd test. The bodies are only allowed to be stamped three times: Manufacturing info counts as one then the two pressure tests.

[AnthonyB]

A draft Euro servicing standard and a draft revision of 5306-3 looked at a 20 year life, but this was not adopted.

Both are being looked at again however and the maximum life and the service intervals are being revisited. The fire trade trembles as 2 years could come in - but at the moment so could 6 monthly - it's a work in progress.

[f500]

I've started to see re-furbished water & foam extinguishers appearing supplied by other servicing companies (BFC and FETA approved by the way) with the linings literally hanging out!
These extinguishers are generally glover 2000 range over 20 years old, perhaps a 20 year limit might not be a bad idea. Although the industry professional bodies shouldn't be so casual as to who they let in, and should audit their members work.

[nim]

These extinguishers are generally glover 2000 range over 20 years old, perhaps a 20 year limit might not be a bad idea. Although the industry professional bodies shouldn't be so casual as to who they let in, and should audit their members work.

Quite clearly shouldn't be supplied by anyone but if the Draft BS5306 Part 3 2008 comes into force then with the destruction of plastic headcaps over 5 years old, by the time they have supplied a new Series 2000 headcap the cost will be too prohibitve to be worthwhile.

http://www.bafe.org.uk/common/Pdfs/General_News/FSH_2_07_0075_BS_5306-3_07_30152563_DC.pdf

[Psuedonym]

Whilst working for a certain Tyco firm in Newton Heath, Monchuster we were instructed to replace all S2000 H/C's at a cost to the punter of (if memory serves me) of £12 each. We were getting them in from TG at a fraction of that each. So the replacement cost need not be prohibitive (ie £12), I suppose it depends on your work ethics. That plus the fact that S2000 are reducing in numbers being replaced with metal headed stored pressure types.

If there was a 20 year life on portables you can guarantee the replacements with new extinguishers would be on a huge scale for a good couple of years. ( increasing manufacture production as well as service companies turnover and engineer commissions) Is this not just the latest sales and production "Great" sales idea now the EN3 clear out is more or less complete?

The cost to the end user would neither be fair nor neccessary as the majority of firms out there will take full advantage of yet another method to "legitimately" remove and replace customers kit. Until of course a savvy sales rep develops an all in contract which given the alternatives would prove an attractive option.

I think a 2 year service span is too long, bearing in mind a good service engineer should be surveying and advising during his service ensuring all changes are covered, staff changes (fire training oportunities), signage updating, repairing/ recharging damaged kit and providing the extended service to BS.

In certain circumstances a 6 monthly is practical. Is this not an option already available with BS recommending no longer than 12 months?

[AnthonyB]

Yes, 6 monthly is an option, you could do a basic service every week if you wanted and exceed the BS minimums - one hospital we recently FRA's has   3 monthly services (by it's own trained engineer).

If the plastic heads rule comes in I can see most places will do one of two things- 1) Ignore it 2) Use it to scrap extinguishers. Although it isn't necessarily prohibitive to replace if you are being honest, the logistics and costs of buying, stocking (dead money until used) and putting on the vans all the different types, plus the time for doing the refit will put a lot of firms off.

I can see why the rule is suggested, but how many plastic heads that didn't actually have visible 'weathering' or damage have ever failed? It will be even more reason to bin any Nu Swift powders (if you aren't Nu Swift) as they are dear enough to refill let alone buy a new headcap for them.

A 20 year rule will result in a mass of sales from the BS followers and remove decent kit as you say. With the advent of the dirt cheap eastern extinguishers why not go further and make them all 5 year disposables, after all you can buy a new powder for the same price as filling it these days...

[nim]

A 20 year rule will result in a mass of sales from the BS followers and remove decent kit as you say.

AnthonyB. The 20 year rule that you mention. What is there in the written word because all I have is what I have been told and that is that HSE recommends that extinguishers should have a complete manufacturers overhaul every 20 years. Nothing in BS.

With the advent of the dirt cheap eastern extinguishers why not go further and make them all 5 year disposables, after all you can buy a new powder for the same price as filling it these days...

The problem with cheap extinguishers being supplied to the end user without being commissioned by a competent person is that they won't have any idea whether the supposed extinguisher they have just removed from the box is a fire extinguisher if it was faulty.

[RePressure]

Either the engineer is misinformed or is trying it on.

It makes you wonder, my first thoughts were "he's down on his sales target and needs to start getting them from somewhere/anywhere".

Probably works for the same company that replaces fire blankets at 10 years regardless of condition.

[The Reiver]

Whilst working for a certain Tyco firm in Newton Heath, Monchuster we were instructed to replace all S2000 H/C's at a cost to the punter of (if memory serves me) of £12 each. We were getting them in from TG at a fraction of that each. So the replacement cost need not be prohibitive (ie £12), I suppose it depends on your work ethics. That plus the fact that S2000 are reducing in numbers being replaced with metal headed stored pressure types.

Sand and Blood young Philip. Is there any firm left that you haven't worked for ? :lol:
It must have been a while ago because the things are £12.45 to buy in now.

Personally, I want ALL plastic headed extinguishers withdrawn from service forth with.
Why ?
In no particular order of preference:
1. There is a guy (former Kidde branch manager) who works down the road from me with a beautiful 3 inch half moon scar 1 inch below his eye socket caused by a S2000 9kg DP head cap exploding in his face.
2. No plastic headed extinguisher has been passed for CE marking. In fact the S2000 model was laughed out of the door when put forward by you know who.
3. I have in my files 2 coroners reports of people killed when these heads sheared off under pressure (2 different manufacturers, same type of bakelite head c(r)ap).
4. There are still countless service vendors out there who either choose to ignore or can't be bothered to find out that any slight discolouration (greying) of the black plastic headcap means that the thing is weakened, knackered, kaputt and likely to injure someone when the appliance is operated. There is no "MAYBE" involved here.
5. What basic engineering principle comes into play that says a degradating plastic should be used as a pressure retaining device ? Said pressure being 195psi+ upon operation. And left in situ degrading for the next 10+ years.
6. I've had a Chubb 9kg DP explode on me due to a sheared headcap (fortunately held in an upright vice on a work bench, therefore I wasn't standing over it). And it scared me witless (and ruined my workshop).
7. Many sites are renewing their lighting to halogen style downlighters in corridors, offices etc. the UV from these lights are guaranteed to kill a plastic headcap withinin 6 weeks. Remember, us poor vendors are there only once a year.
8. I've told all my lads to mark "unfit for service" anything with a plastic headcap at next service and we now issue a warning and disclaimer should anyone wish to keep them. Chubb WS, Glover 2000, Norfolk, I care not. I've had enough of the stuff.


I will take previous comments about fleecing customers the other way. I see one or two firms involved in the sport, but I see far more involved in the opposite. Service vendors doing absolutely nothing to equipment because they live in fear that any extra cost will lose them the contract. Neglect is still fleecing the client (of the service he deserves) and I would put the amount of those companies way ahead of those out to make higher profits. Probably about 10 to 1 in the HPE trade.

Weren't we talking about stainless steel kit ?