Kitchen door on hold open device

[CJ]

Hi just after your opinions
where i work we have a kitchen door that is held open on a device connected into the fire alarm. My feelings are that this hould be removed and the door should be kept shut.  Because if someone burns the toast the smoke will be in the corridor before the alarm goes off and closes the kitchen door.

am i correct in my thinking?

[CivvyFSO]

The smoke from burnt toast is not going to put anyones life at risk. Unless it is a dead end corridor there would generally be no requirement for a FR door anyway, and the hold open device is better than the chair or extinguisher that will be used to prop the door open. (Makes it easier to get back out when you have your hands full of tea and toast.)

[Tom W]

In my opinion you could have a kitchen door retained but the device would have to be Cat B/A (BS7273-4)

If you didn't retain it people may wedge it, if they didn't wedge it you have H&S problems with people carrying hot food/liquids

[Big T]

How can you install a hold open device on a kitchen door? surely the heat detector would not activate in a suitable time frame and the corridoor would already be smoke logged before the smoke detector activated to relaese it?

[CivvyFSO]

No because the detector in the corridor would probably pick it up before the heat detector and close the door with just a small amount of smoke in the corridor.

[Big T]

Interesting.

I am currently being forced to change a heat detector to a smoke detector in the dining area of a kitchen diner becaue the FSO was unhappy that the corridoor would become smoke logged before the smoke detect in the corridor would close the door. I laughed at him.

[CJ]

Very interesting

the kitchen is in a ward area at a hospital.

[lingmoor]

No because the detector in the corridor would probably pick it up before the heat detector and close the door with just a small amount of smoke in the corridor.

For a hold open device to work properly there should be a smoke detector either side.

The smoke detector in the corridor would go off for a pastime from fumes etc from the kitchen...also with a hold open device the kitchen door would not close quick enough with a kitchen heat detector

It isn't feasible in my view

[CivvyFSO]

I think that people can forget that heat detectors go off at about 58 degrees C. Before the corridor gets smoke logged I would suggest that the temperature at ceiling level in the room of origin was possibly over 58 degrees and as such the fire alarm would have activated. There are calcs that can be done to prove it one way or another if anyone can be bothered. Wiz may be able to give some more detailed discussion on this area.

[kurnal]

This argument will always be with us. Its a case of balancing the competing risks. If the kitchen opens into a staircase or a corridor, if a corridor what other rooms open into the corridor, and is there two way travel. In some cases I have gone for a hold open device operated by DS in the corridor and DH in the kitchen. Better still to keep the kitchen door shut and if moving hot food through then a double swing door becomes essential as Piglet suggests. A double swing door may not seal very well in the longer term- would it be better to have a single swing door held back on a magnet or dorguard - it will let smoke intoi the corridor till the DS operates or would it be better to have a possible leaky double swing door thats closed all the time. I may go for the hold back device cos it hits more H&S targets but only if the corridor is fairly low risk. Did find one old listed hotel where the kitchen opened into the stairs and the only route between kitchen and dining room was across the bottom of the stairs. Couldnt make door double swing and said they must not hold the door open. I bet they do  though.

[CivvyFSO]

Very interesting

the kitchen is in a ward area at a hospital.

I am not familiar with the HTM documents at all, but we are not talking about anyone frying stuff are we?

[nearlythere]

Hi just after your opinions
where i work we have a kitchen door that is held open on a device connected into the fire alarm. My feelings are that this hould be removed and the door should be kept shut.  Because if someone burns the toast the smoke will be in the corridor before the alarm goes off and closes the kitchen door.

am i correct in my thinking?

Does the kitchen door open onto a corridor or is there a dining room between both?

[kurnal]

Then HTM should apply and we should not have kitchens in wards. Whats the kitchen actually used for- is it a staff rest area or a preparation area - it cant be a full blown kitchen can it???

[CJ]

No just a toaster and kettle.

[CivvyFSO]

Approx 117 watts output per slice of toast. Frightening stuff.