Kitchen fire door

[CJ]

Hi just after your opinions
where i work we have a kitchen door that is held open on a device connected into the fire alarm. My feelings are that this should be removed and the door should be kept shut.  Because if someone burns the toast the smoke will be in the corridor before the alarm goes off and closes the kitchen door.

am i correct in my thinking?

[AnthonyB]

In theory you are correct, however Firecode - Health Technical Memorandum 05-02: Guidance in support of functional provisions for healthcare premises does allow the use of free swing closing devices to these doors for ease of use of the facility.

[Midland Retty]

Indeed and not only that there shouldnt be that much smoke without someone realising there is a problem and doing something about it (ie closing the door)

[messy]

I am fairly relaxed about door holder in Kitchens - in certai circumstances- if managed properly. EG: If that door is gong to busy with staff carrying plates (in pubs - perhaps 12+hrs a day), and the door holder is removed, the door will be wedged within 20 minutes.

There aint no way staff are going to open and close the door each time they need to carry food through - it just will not happen

If the door is closed when the kitchen is out of action and/or closes on a timer when the kitchen is closed and a MCP is located nearby (on the MOE) so kitchen staff can raise the alrm immediately, I reckon  it's much better than a wedged door.

The biggest risk of fire is when the kitchen is in use, in which case it's manned and will be nnoticed straight away. Any fire when the kitchen is empty will be contained by the now closed FD and picked up by the AFD

[Chris Houston]

Can someone explain this hospital-toast situation to me?  I have a toaster at home and for as long as it is set between 3 and 4, I've never burnt my toast in my life.  Why is this issue such a challenge to hospitals?

[Clevelandfire]

Its down to a training defieciency (think I spelt that right); Nurses arent sufficiently trained in making toast.

Joking aside the nurses are busy people and as such put the toast on and then get called away to deal with patients. That wot I fink anyway.

[Chris Houston]

But the £9.99 one I have at home pops them up when done, so I still can't burn them even if I leave it on.

[messy]

Its down to a training defieciency (think I spelt that right); Nurses arent sufficiently trained in making toast.

.

I have been married to a Nurse for 26 years and I can confirm that their competence in overheating of foodstuffs isn't restricted to just toast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kurnal]

But the £9.99 one I have at home pops them up when done, so I still can't burn them even if I leave it on.

Till one day when it sticks - you can get flames up to 18 inch high. Did a reconstruction once following a serious fire in a care home, 3 am - staff had put on some toast, got called away to a resident, meanwhile toaster jammed, set fire to cupboards above and gutted the kitchen. It seemed unlikely so we pinched a toaster from another fire station and wired the lever down to try it. Never forgotton just how well it went.

[Chris Houston]

I hear a lot about burnt toast at hospitals, causing "false" alarms.   But what you are describing is not a false alarm, but an actual fire.

It's the regular burnt toast, no fire, false alarms that I'm still struggling to comprehend.

[Davo]

Messy

I take it Mrs Messy doesn't read this forum or your a**e will be toast!

dave

[Midland Retty]

Mrs Midland Retty (god bless her) is also nurse and has been known to even burn salads!

 But at the end of the day theyre not there to win masterchef, they're there to help people so I sharn't mock.

hear a lot about burnt toast at hospitals, causing "false" alarms.   But what you are describing is not a false alarm, but an actual fire.

It's the regular burnt toast, no fire, false alarms that I'm still struggling to comprehend

What we are talking about is smouldering toast - i.e. just enough to activate AFD without bursting into flames.

As Kurnal says toasters get a lot of use and the mechanism can stick and of course the Nurses haven't got time to stand and keep an eye on it

Also some detectors become sensitive to the "fumes" if you like given off by overcooked or burnt food!

[chris tinsley]

Here is guidance we give all our staff at Royal Bolton Hospital

Toasters are only to be used in designated kitchens that have been approved by the Fire Safety Adviser.

·      Toasters are only to be used for toasting bread.

·      All staff are reminded that when using toasters, they are not to be left unattended whilst the bread is toasting.

·      Only use standard size toast bread. Not double thickness bread, tea-cakes, barm cakes, flour cakes or similar.

·      Do not use toasters with extension leads.

·      Do not use toasters near sinks or other liquid sources.

·      Do not trail wires over hot surfaces or cause the wiring to be Health and Safety hazard.

·      Do not use the toaster underneath overhead cupboards/combustibles or adjacent other combustible materials.

·      After use, do not place the toaster adjacent anything that may be affected by the residual heat in the toaster body.
     
        Do not use toasters to heat up or soften items eg butter.
   
        Do not  use toasters to reheat partially cooked toast.

[Brian Downes]

1. Most domestic toasters pop up and switch off...many commercial toasters as used in the NHS, do not.
Staff call or emergency buzzer goes off...so do the staff and the toast burns!! Okay more staff training required, but with so few staff and so many patients...etc, etc

2. Conventional self closer with a dwell device can solve the 'trolley access' wedge the door problem and still keep the door closed to contain the fire, or prevent the UwFS.

3. Fire or False Alarm...almost always a false alarm...no FDR 1 for the Sub.Officer / Watch Manager to fill in,  or Brigades logging toaster fires as false alarms to keep the FDR1 stats down and massage IRMP's etc...what a wonderful fire safety job they are doing....very large tick in box!

4. Mrs Downes is a Midwife... unlike a Nurse, she never ever burns the toast!!

[Tom W]

Hi just after your opinions
where i work we have a kitchen door that is held open on a device connected into the fire alarm. My feelings are that this should be removed and the door should be kept shut.  Because if someone burns the toast the smoke will be in the corridor before the alarm goes off and closes the kitchen door.

am i correct in my thinking?

Depending on the location of your toaster and detector i would hope all systems would actuate before the smoke could sufficiently reach the hallway.

If you take it off you are likely to get a wedge, if you don't get a wedge you may have people getting injured by carrying hot food stuffs through said door.

There are alot more pros for having it on there then having it off.