Criminal Record

[Mark]

Hi all,

Hope you can help me, and sorry in advance for what may seem like babbling.

I have an application form for the West Mids Fire Service. It's something I have wanted to do for a long time, but just a couple of questions if I may?

In one of the sections, it asks if you have any UNSPENT convictions. I looked up the meaning of unspent, and spent. As my conviction was a fine, and the rehabilitation period was 5 years, and 8 years has passed, would I need to declare this on the application? I won't hide it, I just don't want to put it, if it is unnecessary as I THINK it is classed as spent, but can't find a clear definition.

The conviction was theft from an employer, when I was 17 in 2000. (Although irrelevant, it was a £15 mobile top-up card) The company I worked for prosecuted, and it went to court. I am completely ashamed to this day, however since I was 18, I have worked in the casino industry. It is very strictly governed by the Gaming Commission, part of the Home Office. Every member of gaming staff is licensed, and has to declare any convictions (spent or unspent), before and whilst working, and everyone has a CRB check.

I am now a junior manager in a casino, and I have authority and responsibilty for large amounts of cash, many staff members, and customers from all races and backgrounds, and I am hoping this may help in my application, to show that I am indeed an honest and trustworthy person.

1. Is it spent or unspent?

2. Do I stand a chance of getting through with a conviction?

The reason I babbled about the conviction and my current job, is so you could take everything into consideration. I believe I would enjoy and work well in the Fire Service, and I'd hate for a stupid mistake to stop me.

Your honest opinions and thoughts would be valued,
Cheers in advance,
Mark

[johno67]

I believe the 'spent' term is in relation to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, which will probably be where your 5 years comes from. If they only require 'unspent' convictions then you would not need to mention it. Do double check the form though because I recall that in some professions (not sure wether the Fire Service is included) you have to inform them of 'any' convictions.

If I was in your situation and I was not legally required to tell them, I would not do so under any circumstances. It is your right under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. You may be tempted into putting it down to show your honesty, but I think that would count for very little. You may find it backfires, especially if one of the assessors decides to show some prejudice.

If you get through to the interview stage you may be asked once more about it, and again if you are not legally required to do so I personally would not say anything.

[vikingmma]

i agree, the time is defininitely 5 years, unless it is a 'serious'offence, which yours isnt. the process is competitive enough without any convictions showing up. the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act is put there for this purpose, use it to your advantage. it should not show up on disclosure if you get through and they check it out.

[Mark]

Thank you for the info. When I moved to a new casino in November, I had to do another CRB. As they ask for a full one, it was still shown, as it will always be stored on the Police national computer (PNC). I'll have to do a little more digging I think, maybe call the CRB.

Thanks for your responses.

Mark

[vikingmma]

'full' disclosure will show up any offences on the pnc, spent or unspent. however, they do 'weed' offences after 12 years, you may have to ask them to do this however, then it dissapears altogether.

if the service you are applying for asks for unspent convictions they can not hold a spent conviction against you, even if they ask for full disclosure and it appears, by this stage, you will more than likely have passed most of the selection process. most brigades will ask for basic disclosure, and spent convictions should not (i think) appear on these.

[Mark]

Ok thanks, I'll definately apply anyways, you can see why I'm worried though? But I didn't know that about the rehabilitation act. I looked again at application, and they do only ask for unspent.

Thank you for the advice, I'll keep you posted. Not sure how long the wait is for West Mids FS from application to response.

Cheers,
Mark

[rp]

Hello,

I currently work for West Mids, I would definetly declare it on your application form as it will only come back to haunt you if it then appears on your CRB check and you didnt declare it earlier. They are a fair organisation so dont worry too much about it.

From the day I sent my application to my day of appointment it took about 12 months so its not a quick process.

[wyngwili]

If these circumstances you describe are correct and 8 yrs have expired since your conviction then as a Firefighter is covered within the rehabilitation of offenders act then you absolutely have no obligation to reveal your past conviction.  You haven't offended since and have paid the price and obviously learnt your lesson that's the whole purpose of the act.  Saying that if you reveal your conviction it cannot lawfully be held against you so you have nothing to worry about.  None of us are saints.

[fireftrm]

If you were still 17 when you were convicted, i.e. definitely under 18 at THAT time, then the conviction is spent after 2.5 years. Spent convictions do not need to be declared, UNLESS the application form says to decalre all whether spent, or unspent. If the form says, as most UKFRS ones do, that you must declare all unspent convictions then DO NOT DECLARE THIS ONE. Whatever then comes back on any CRB is irrelevant, whatever rp says, if the form says unspent then you should not mention it. There can be no comeback as you would have completed the application correctly.The people checking forms will not have time to check each conviction to see if the individual has decalred spent ones wrongly, or to check whtehr they are really unspent at all. They will put htese aside and someone may look again at them, more likley bin them as there will be so many applicants anyway. Do what the form says, if it says decalre any unsdpent convictions put nothing in the box at all, if it says put in all and state whether spent (and if also when remember the under 18 rule of 2.5 years) , or unspent, then put it in. SIMPLE.

[johno67]

Totally agree with fireftrm comments and disagree with rp's. It may be a fair organisation, but even fair organisations have biased employees. If you are not required to declare it do not.

I had a conviction from when I was 15 and didn't declare it when I joined because the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act gave me that right. I never had any comeback on it. I have had two full CRB checks since and the spent conviction wasn't recorded (although it was 25 years ago).

[nearlythere]

Hi all,

Hope you can help me, and sorry in advance for what may seem like babbling.

I have an application form for the West Mids Fire Service. It's something I have wanted to do for a long time, but just a couple of questions if I may?

In one of the sections, it asks if you have any UNSPENT convictions. I looked up the meaning of unspent, and spent. As my conviction was a fine, and the rehabilitation period was 5 years, and 8 years has passed, would I need to declare this on the application? I won't hide it, I just don't want to put it, if it is unnecessary as I THINK it is classed as spent, but can't find a clear definition.

The conviction was theft from an employer, when I was 17 in 2000. (Although irrelevant, it was a £15 mobile top-up card) The company I worked for prosecuted, and it went to court. I am completely ashamed to this day, however since I was 18, I have worked in the casino industry. It is very strictly governed by the Gaming Commission, part of the Home Office. Every member of gaming staff is licensed, and has to declare any convictions (spent or unspent), before and whilst working, and everyone has a CRB check.

I am now a junior manager in a casino, and I have authority and responsibilty for large amounts of cash, many staff members, and customers from all races and backgrounds, and I am hoping this may help in my application, to show that I am indeed an honest and trustworthy person.

1. Is it spent or unspent?

2. Do I stand a chance of getting through with a conviction?

The reason I babbled about the conviction and my current job, is so you could take everything into consideration. I believe I would enjoy and work well in the Fire Service, and I'd hate for a stupid mistake to stop me.

Your honest opinions and thoughts would be valued,
Cheers in advance,
Mark

I think the best thing you can do Markos is take proper legal advice from a lawyer even if it costs you a few pounds.
If your offence is spent then forget it. There will be so many applications they may look for any reason to whittle them down to a more managable level.

[Adam V]

In your case Markos, where the brigade you are applying to are only asking for unspent convictions, i would agree with the majority of replies on this thread and leave it out as this seems to be your right under the rehabilitation of offenders act.

However, for anyone else applying or if you apply to a different brigade check each application individually. The reason being i know Manchester ask to declare if you have any criminal convictions, including spent convictions, cautions or reprimands (at least this was the case about a year ago).

[Galeon]

There has been a case where a service engineer turned up at the local nick to service the alarm , they nicked him when they found out he had a warrant outstanding , nice one.

[Nick G]

On a positive note as an employer myself, your story as you told it would stand you in good stead and not negative. It demonstrates that you made a mistake, learnt a lesson and had the character to move onwards and upwards. Open minded employers would not hesitate to discount your mistake. An open minded employer would even understand why you might conceal it at interview stage but you would be so much more respected just bringing it out in the open, laying it on the table and weighing it against the trust placed in you in your current/later role in the Casino industry. Employers are human too (well mostly!)

[Big T]

In addition, the modern brigade would have trouble not accepting you for a crime like petty theft. If the Police will accept you nowadays I'm sure the fire service will.