Author Topic: Bathrooms off Kitchens  (Read 3822 times)

Midland Retty

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Bathrooms off Kitchens
« on: August 22, 2008, 12:40:40 PM »
Would be most grateful of your opinion and comments on the following issue.

In the past I have encountered several HMOs where communal bathrooms have been located directly off communal kitchens. This situation is normally found in victorian terraced houses where the bathroom is on ground floor at the rear of the premises and is accessed from the lounge via the kitchen.

Where this layout exists I normally require that an escape window be fitted in the bathroom (where appropriate) or that a lobby be formed between the bathroom and kitchen with a door leading directly to fresh air in line with our local guidance.

My question is do you feel this is over burdensome?

I'm not requiring such measures simply because the guide tells me to, my opinion is that in multi occupied houses indivduals are not in control of what their housemates might be doing at any given time.

So consider one tennant relaxing in bath whilst another is cooking in the kitchen etc.

If there was a fire would the person cooking necessarily know their chum or hosuemate was in the bathroom?.

Furthermore are those tennants actually friends or do they merely happen to share the same roof and just cross each other in the corridor once in a blue moon?. Do they necessarily feel a duty of care towards one another?

In our own homes we would tend to be aware to of what each other is doing and have control over what goes on there. In the event of a fire we would do everything possible to ensure safety of friends / family - you'd grab the kids, you'd grab your partner etc etc .

Im not sure this is would be the quite the same scenario in HMOs

Hopefully you can see the point I'm making - over to you - your opinions as always will be gratefully received.

Offline jokar

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Bathrooms off Kitchens
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2008, 01:47:56 PM »
90 degree openable window as a suggestion at grd flr level.

Offline Seanchaí

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Bathrooms off Kitchens
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2008, 02:08:34 PM »
Taken from Recently Released LACoR's Document

12. Inner rooms

12.1 A room where the only escape route is through
another room is termed an ‘inner room’ and poses
a risk to its occupier if a fire starts unnoticed in the
outer room (sometimes termed an ‘access room’). This
arrangement should be avoided wherever possible.

However, where unavoidable it may be accepted where
the inner room is a kitchen, laundry or utility room, a
dressing room, bathroom, WC or shower room.

12.2 Where the inner room is any other type of habitable
room (for example a living room, sleeping room,
workroom or study) it should only be accepted if:

• the inner room has access to a suitable door
opening onto an alternative safe route of escape,
or it is situated on a floor which is not more than
4.5m above ground level and has an escape window
leading directly to a place of ultimate safety;

• an adequate automatic fire detection and warning
system is in place (see paragraphs 22-25); and

• a fire-resisting door of an appropriate standard is
fitted between the inner and outer rooms (typically
FD30S standard for non-high-risk outer rooms).

12.3 Escape windows are only acceptable if they meet the
requirements of paragraph 14.

12.4 In addition to the precautions outlined in paragraphs

12.1-12.3 above, in all cases the following additional
requirements must apply for the arrangement to be
acceptable:

• outer rooms should be under the control of the
same person as the inner room;

• nobody should have to pass through more than one
outer room while making their escape; and

• ideally the outer room should not be an area of high
fire risk, but if this is impracticable and there is no
other option it could be accepted in this situation as
exit via an escape window provides an alternative.

Midland Retty

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Bathrooms off Kitchens
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 02:13:25 PM »
We already specify window escape as I mention above, just wondered more so if it was onnerous to ask for the measures I described.

Midland Retty

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Bathrooms off Kitchens
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 02:18:25 PM »
Thanks for that Seanchai - we had already read that and it seems to suggest that our current requirements are ok but that further relaxation can be given in certain circumstances.

But Im more intrested in your thoughts - rather than what the guidance says.

Offline Seanchaí

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Bathrooms off Kitchens
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2008, 02:37:39 PM »
Given the fact that many HMO's provide shelter for some of the more vulnerable members of society, some of whom may well have even slipped through the safety net and should be in more appropriate accommodation, I see absolutely no flaw's in your logic and personally would not consider what you propose in these circumstances onerous.............I am sure somewhere there are circumstances where alternatives could be justified but I am inclined to think this will based on the actual occupants of the premises rather than the structural arrangements you describe.......I suppose vision panels would be inappropriate :)  !!!!!!!!!!

Midland Retty

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Bathrooms off Kitchens
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2008, 05:04:57 PM »
Thanks Seanchai.... not sure about the vision panels though!