Aspirating Detection Systems - Maximum height

[Alex Manning]

I have a heard a rumour that  there may be some testing being undertaken to review the maximum ceiling heights for aspirating systems. I was led to understand that the testing was being carried out by the BRE and/or the FIA. Does anyone have any further information regarding this?

I know that the current limit is 15m for a life safety system (taken from BS 5839: Part 1), but we have a project that has a larger ceiling height. Any information on the current progress of the testing would also be appreciated.

Thanks

[wee brian]

I think (rumour only) that they are looking at the old BFPSA test. This involved a couple of smoke pellets on a gas ring.

[Benzerari]

I have a heard a rumour that  there may be some testing being undertaken to review the maximum ceiling heights for aspirating systems. I was led to understand that the testing was being carried out by the BRE and/or the FIA. Does anyone have any further information regarding this?

I know that the current limit is 15m for a life safety system (taken from BS 5839: Part 1), but we have a project that has a larger ceiling height. Any information on the current progress of the testing would also be appreciated.

Thanks

Very interesting question, I may add some other questions in regards to aspirating system:

           1.   Does the position of ducts well defined in BS5839, or is it left to fire risk assessment to determine
                where about they should be fitted, however I used to see perforated ducts only fitted above some
                risky sources of ignition such as electronics equipments…, and none in the middle of the room or
                other corners? Is that what is required by BS?

           2.   I have read in several occasions that every single hole in a duct can replace a normal smoke
                detector, is that true? By means is the air sample taken by every hole is processed separately by
                the detection aspirating unit, or only some of the samples are processed?

Thank you

[Ashley Wood]

Alex, back in 1990 I carried out some tests at the Royal Albert Hall. We had a veda unit located in the highest point. This is well over 100 foot in the air! We used smoke pellets at ground level. The vesda detected the smoke within a few minutes. The smoke startafied at the height of the acustic saucers suspended from the ceiling (about 60 foot) regardless of how much smoke we generated.

[Allen Higginson]

I have a heard a rumour that  there may be some testing being undertaken to review the maximum ceiling heights for aspirating systems. I was led to understand that the testing was being carried out by the BRE and/or the FIA. Does anyone have any further information regarding this?

I know that the current limit is 15m for a life safety system (taken from BS 5839: Part 1), but we have a project that has a larger ceiling height. Any information on the current progress of the testing would also be appreciated.

Thanks

Very interesting question, I may add some other questions in regards to aspirating system:

           1.   Does the position of ducts well defined in BS5839, or is it left to fire risk assessment to determine
                where about they should be fitted, however I used to see perforated ducts only fitted above some
                risky sources of ignition such as electronics equipments…, and none in the middle of the room or
                other corners? Is that what is required by BS?

           2.   I have read in several occasions that every single hole in a duct can replace a normal smoke
                detector, is that true? By means is the air sample taken by every hole is processed separately by
                the detection aspirating unit, or only some of the samples are processed?

Thank you

Each sampling port (hole) on the aspirating system pipe is the equivalent of a normal smoke detector with regards to coverage (ie - 7.5m radius) and zone size (2000m2).The smoke is transported to the actual detector unit for analysis and action.
It could be compared to a conventional fire alarm system in that you cannot determine which sampling port (or detection source) has picked up the smoke,only which area the pipe is in.
VESDA is one type (and probably the most well known name) of aspirating system but WAGNER & Siemens do it as well - here's a link to their info sheet http://www.vesdawholesale.com/PDF%20public/NFO%20Vesda%20Product%20Range.pdf

[Benzerari]

I have a heard a rumour that  there may be some testing being undertaken to review the maximum ceiling heights for aspirating systems. I was led to understand that the testing was being carried out by the BRE and/or the FIA. Does anyone have any further information regarding this?

I know that the current limit is 15m for a life safety system (taken from BS 5839: Part 1), but we have a project that has a larger ceiling height. Any information on the current progress of the testing would also be appreciated.

Thanks

Very interesting question, I may add some other questions in regards to aspirating system:

           1.   Does the position of ducts well defined in BS5839, or is it left to fire risk assessment to determine
                where about they should be fitted, however I used to see perforated ducts only fitted above some
                risky sources of ignition such as electronics equipments…, and none in the middle of the room or
                other corners? Is that what is required by BS?

           2.   I have read in several occasions that every single hole in a duct can replace a normal smoke
                detector, is that true? By means is the air sample taken by every hole is processed separately by
                the detection aspirating unit, or only some of the samples are processed?

Thank you

Each sampling port (hole) on the aspirating system pipe is the equivalent of a normal smoke detector with regards to coverage (ie - 7.5m radius) and zone size (2000m2).The smoke is transported to the actual detector unit for analysis and action.
It could be compared to a conventional fire alarm system in that you cannot determine which sampling port (or detection source) has picked up the smoke,only which area the pipe is in.
VESDA is one type (and probably the most well known name) of aspirating system but WAGNER & Siemens do it as well - here's a link to their info sheet http://www.vesdawholesale.com/PDF%20public/NFO%20Vesda%20Product%20Range.pdf

Very good answer, it is just to the gravity centre, and thanks for the document of VESDA, if you get any more (technical docs) about aspirating system including Wagner/Simens, please let me know.

[Allen Higginson]

Very interesting question, I may add some other questions in regards to aspirating system:

           1.   Does the position of ducts well defined in BS5839, or is it left to fire risk assessment to determine
                where about they should be fitted, however I used to see perforated ducts only fitted above some
                risky sources of ignition such as electronics equipments…, and none in the middle of the room or
                other corners? Is that what is required by BS?

           2.   I have read in several occasions that every single hole in a duct can replace a normal smoke
                detector, is that true? By means is the air sample taken by every hole is processed separately by
                the detection aspirating unit, or only some of the samples are processed?

Thank you

Each sampling port (hole) on the aspirating system pipe is the equivalent of a normal smoke detector with regards to coverage (ie - 7.5m radius) and zone size (2000m2).The smoke is transported to the actual detector unit for analysis and action.
It could be compared to a conventional fire alarm system in that you cannot determine which sampling port (or detection source) has picked up the smoke,only which area the pipe is in.
VESDA is one type (and probably the most well known name) of aspirating system but WAGNER & Siemens do it as well - here's a link to their info sheet http://www.vesdawholesale.com/PDF%20public/NFO%20Vesda%20Product%20Range.pdf

Very good answer, it is just to the gravity centre, and thanks for the document of VESDA, if you get any more (technical docs) about aspirating system including Wagner/Simens, please let me know.

Will do - it is very accurate/fast responding and it's installation can be very discreet.In the case of a suspended or false ceiling the pipe network is above with a flat disc mounted on the ceiling connected to it via capillary tubing.It can also be installed using copper pipe in heritage building for aesthetics or in applications where plastic is not suitable.

[Galeon]

You can also get micro bore , Guardian Stamp was an early one , Icam is still doing it .

[Benzerari]

You can also get micro bore , Guardian Stamp was an early one , Icam is still doing it .

Thanks Gal. for that, I found the following link the downloads of 'Icam Limited' are locked up

http://www.browsbox.com/files/252/14654_01_icam_product_line_broch_a4_eng_lores.pdf

[Galeon]

www.icam.ltd.uk

Try that one

[Benzerari]

www.icam.ltd.uk

Try that one

Its' the same one I have found, that led me to the above link. Thank you