Analogue Addressable System converts to conventional one in case of...

[Benzerari]

Hi Guys:

It seems I am late to know about the Apollo Discovery detectors, if there is a lost of protocol in the loop (lost of configuration), by means no analogue values ... etc, the device will switch to a simple conventional detector, so when detecting conventional alarm threshold, it triggers an alarm and the panel would display alarm in the loop in question, without any further details due to the protocol is been lost...

Also, both discovery detector and the panel together, make the decision of whether alarm condition should take place or not… etc

Have some one tried to trriger a discovery detector prior i.e. of loop auto learning, and fire condition took place?

I will try that soon

It’s really amasing if it practically works!

[Graeme]

It switches to conventional should the control panel develop a processor fault so i would imagine that if the panel has no FEP to make the decision then the head will.

[Benzerari]

In my understanding, Discovery is not only better sensitive to genuine fires and less prone to false alarms. bIt's even, more safe in case of lost of configuration for what so ever reasons, why don't we stop using XP95 and stick into Discovery as long as the price is not of big difference ?

[Allen Higginson]

In my understanding, Discovery is not only better sensitive to genuine fires and less prone to false alarms. bIt's even, more safe in case of lost of configuration for what so ever reasons, why don't we stop using XP95 and stick into Discovery as long as the price is not of big difference ?

Older systems can't take them.

[Benzerari]

In my understanding, Discovery is not only better sensitive to genuine fires and less prone to false alarms. bIt's even, more safe in case of lost of configuration for what so ever reasons, why don't we stop using XP95 and stick into Discovery as long as the price is not of big difference ?

Older systems can't take them.

Indeed, have already tried that with old morley, it did like discovery...

[Graeme]

In my understanding, Discovery is not only better sensitive to genuine fires and less prone to false alarms. bIt's even, more safe in case of lost of configuration for what so ever reasons, why don't we stop using XP95 and stick into Discovery as long as the price is not of big difference ?

it is if you are pricing a large install.

[wozzer38]

Be careful here, the Discovery detectors have the facility to signal an alarm if no protocol is present, however I don't believe any panels have the ability to pick up the alarm pulses generated. Basically what happens is if the protocol stops for any reason the Discovery detector has the ability to still signal an alarm. It does this by sending these alarm pulses, however a panel would require additional hardware to pick these pulses up.

I'm also wondering how likely it is for the panel processor to fail without the whole panel breaking down, in which case would there be any DC on the line to run the devices in the first place?

[Benzerari]

Be careful here, the Discovery detectors have the facility to signal an alarm if no protocol is present, however I don't believe any panels have the ability to pick up the alarm pulses generated. Basically what happens is if the protocol stops for any reason the Discovery detector has the ability to still signal an alarm. It does this by sending these alarm pulses, however a panel would require additional hardware to pick these pulses up.

I'm also wondering how likely it is for the panel processor to fail without the whole panel breaking down, in which case would there be any DC on the line to run the devices in the first place?

If the protocol signal is lost, this shouldn't affect normally the DC value of 24Vdc, because in fact the protocol digital signal is a succession of 0s and 1s of 5Vdc amplitude above the DC feed (24Vdc).

[wozzer38]

but they are both sent on the same wires. If the protocol pulses disappear it is likely the reason for that is the voltage has dropped to zero. The 5 volt pulses are on top of the 24v used to power the devices.

[Benzerari]

but they are both sent on the same wires. If the protocol pulses disappear it is likely the reason for that is the voltage has dropped to zero. The 5 volt pulses are on top of the 24v used to power the devices.

NO, not necessary, lost of protocol doesn't mean necessary drop of voltage in the normal DC feed (24Vdc)

the only way to cut the 24Vdc is by a minimum of two open circuits in the loop, means part of the loop circuit is lost

[wozzer38]

All im saying is it isn't likely that you will lose protocol if you have not already lost the whole loop card. i.e. the liklihood of losing the protocol alone is small.

[Benzerari]

All im saying is it isn't likely that you will lose protocol if you have not already lost the whole loop card. i.e. the liklihood of losing the protocol alone is small.

Imagine you have just about to commission analogue addressable system, but not yet!  all the second fix are done, there is no protocol yet, as long as there is no configuration yet, no autolearning yet, the loop should still have 24Vdc shouldn't it?

The same thing will happen if causing an internal reset by error...etc, you will lose the protocol but not the feed of 24Vdc. and then the system needs to be reconfigured or recommissioned...

The loop card faillure, is not the only way to loose the protocol

[David Rooney]

All im saying is it isn't likely that you will lose protocol if you have not already lost the whole loop card. i.e. the liklihood of losing the protocol alone is small.

Have to agree.

I've been in the business over 20 years and i can't recall losing a loop simply because it had lost the means to communicate - maybe we just never came across the right panels...!

Personally I think a lot of the discovery features are just "gimmicky" and an excuse to charge more money..... When they first brought them out the heads had a lot of problems, and more recently a job just over two years old (installed by Siemens funny enough!) in a computer room we look after, aproximately 50 or so heads, there is a pile of 10 detectors left on the panel that have been swapped out so far....

[Benzerari]

All im saying is it isn't likely that you will lose protocol if you have not already lost the whole loop card. i.e. the liklihood of losing the protocol alone is small.

Have to agree.

I've been in the business over 20 years and i can't recall losing a loop simply because it had lost the means to communicate - maybe we just never came across the right panels...!

Personally I think a lot of the discovery features are just "gimmicky" and an excuse to charge more money..... When they first brought them out the heads had a lot of problems, and more recently a job just over two years old (installed by Siemens funny enough!) in a computer room we look after, aproximately 50 or so heads, there is a pile of 10 detectors left on the panel that have been swapped out so far....

Dave:

This is one opinion among many, the discovery features is a bit advanced than the XP95 ones, and the majority of analogue addressable panels are designed to support the XP95 protocol but not necessary the extended one of discovery, even the protocol's basis is the same...etc

However, my guess is that the timers of analogue adderssable systems compatible to XP95 and discovery are not the same, which means; if analogue addressable system is designed to support XP95, its data transfer in each conversation wouldn't be completed to swap over the comunication, if using Discovery...,and threrefore this may cause some data to be lost...ect

Therefore If analogue addessable systems are designed to support Discovery extended protocol that would be grate.

Also this is one opnion among many

[David Rooney]

So how long has Discovery been on the market and how many panels support the full extended protocol and how many manufacturers intend to support the full extended protocol ??