Author Topic: HD/SD Installation  (Read 22011 times)

Offline Davidrh

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HD/SD Installation
« on: September 19, 2008, 07:48:19 PM »
Can anyone tell me what technical problems I might have simply changing over HD' to SD's
ie. Is it a job for a competant handyman, an electrician or a certified fire alarm installer.
Can it be done in small amounts (ie say 3/4 at a time)
Does it have any effect at all on the system installed (non addressable)

I ask because I have so much contrary advise.

Chris Houston

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HD/SD Installation
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2008, 08:15:43 PM »
I'd say any work on a fire alarm system should be done by a fire alarm engineer.

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2008, 08:23:27 PM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Can anyone tell me what technical problems I might have simply changing over HD' to SD's
ie. Is it a job for a competant handyman, an electrician or a certified fire alarm installer.
Can it be done in small amounts (ie say 3/4 at a time)
Does it have any effect at all on the system installed (non addressable)

I ask because I have so much contrary advise.
Firstable what's the reason making you changing the HD to SD?

I think what ever the reason, the risk assessor who can tel you if you can do so! I used to see, boiler room, bathroom...etc, converted to offices, bedrooms...etc. if it's the case, the risk assessor would avice you to do so. or if the smoke free policy is your main reason...etc

As for; who should do so? I would recommend the service company itself, who is in charge of servicing your system, pay her the right amount of money, and avoid any problems that might come up, if the job is carried out by none competent person!

Offline Big_Fella

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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2008, 09:06:32 PM »
Devices will need to be fully tested for fire condition and fault condition.  A certificate issued to say that the system has been commissioned in accordance with the British Standard.

At the end of the day, it's a life safety system... To save lives !!! Not to cut corners
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Offline Wiz

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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2008, 10:44:40 AM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Can anyone tell me what technical problems I might have simply changing over HD' to SD's
ie. Is it a job for a competant handyman, an electrician or a certified fire alarm installer.
Can it be done in small amounts (ie say 3/4 at a time)
Does it have any effect at all on the system installed (non addressable)

I ask because I have so much contrary advise.
Davidrh, technically, the simplest method is to ensure that you choose detectors of the same manufacturer and range, and the job should basically just be a matter of unplugging one and plugging in the other (this is not the case with addressable systems and possibly not with non-addressable detectors of other manufacture or range). Any amount of replacements could be carried out at the same time with due consideration to the impact of having detectors 'missing' from the system at any time.

Also you are talking about HD to SD. It is not so straightforward doing it the other way around.

Also there are different types of SD and it could be argued that one type is better than the other in certain locations, so this might be a consideration.

However the most important part of the project is testing that the new smoke detector is working properly. Since engineers generally only use a smoke aerosol to check the detector generates a fire condition I can't see that this anything particularly difficult for anyone to do.

The final check would be to ensure that removal of the detector from the base generates a 'detector removed' fault at the control panel. Again this is not technically difficult to check!

However, as other posts have alluded to, whoever carried out this work would be legally responsible for doing it. If something went wrong, that person may have to prove in a court of law that they were competent enough to have carried out the work.

n.b. - all of the above advice is totally based on changing a heat detector to a smoke detector whilst retaining the existing mounting base in a non-addressable system.

Offline Galeon

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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2008, 02:22:13 PM »
Would you ask your handyman to do the gas on your boiler ?
Its time to make a counter attack !

Graeme

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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2008, 02:41:10 PM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Can anyone tell me what technical problems I might have simply changing over HD' to SD's
ie. Is it a job for a competant handyman, an electrician or a certified fire alarm installer.
Can it be done in small amounts (ie say 3/4 at a time)
Does it have any effect at all on the system installed (non addressable)

I ask because I have so much contrary advise.
David

No such thing as a competant handy man for fire alarms. No to an electrician as they are mostly as competant as a handy man with fire alarms.

As Wiz mentioned pretty straight forward to do if you can source the same detectors that fit the same base. Although if it was me and i found cheapo(not saying this is the case) detectors,i would install quality ones in which i would also need to change the bases.

If we are talking about bedrooms which i think we are then i would recommend installing mutisensors to reduce on unwanted alarms.

The effect on the system would be only to improve it as heat detection should only really be installed where smoke can't.

Offline Allen Higginson

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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2008, 07:24:27 PM »
You will also have to be wary of the location of the present heat detector if it is (as is most likely) outside trhe bathroom and at the door in.You change this to a smoke and you are liable to get false alarms due to steam (wouldn't like someone getting stung £1600 for accidentally setting the fire alarm of due to a design fault - sorry,couldn't resist!).
Allen

Offline nearlythere

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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2008, 09:01:25 PM »
Quote from: Buzzard905
You will also have to be wary of the location of the present heat detector if it is (as is most likely) outside trhe bathroom and at the door in.You change this to a smoke and you are liable to get false alarms due to steam (wouldn't like someone getting stung £1600 for accidentally setting the fire alarm of due to a design fault - sorry,couldn't resist!).
Allen
You mean there was a design fault with the cigarette? They gave off too much smoke for the detector or something? Thats shows a complete lack of common sense by the smoker not to take into consideration the limitations of the system. No excuses, she should have checked. I'm sure its says something about the maximum permitted smoke concentration in the bedroom's information booklet. Ain't that right David?
Maybe she could sue the cigarette manufacturer, say for £1600 plus costs.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Davidrh

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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2008, 09:12:01 PM »
Ok Ok..I get the joke (you are joking Yes/No)

Come and s-t-a-y at my hotel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(and set your alarms for 3.00am)

Offline Allen Higginson

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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2008, 09:29:59 AM »
Quote from: Davidrh
Ok Ok..I get the joke (you are joking Yes/No)

Come and s-t-a-y at my hotel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(and set your alarms for 3.00am)
Joking yes!
But check your locations before changing your heats to smokes.

Graeme

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HD/SD Installation
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2008, 11:34:31 AM »
Quote from: Galeon
Would you ask your handyman to do the gas on your boiler ?
excatly. keep your handy man doing things like putting up pictures and repairing a tap washer.

Offline Davidrh

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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2008, 11:52:38 AM »
How come a qualified electrian cannot change an HD to SD.
For the record I am putting in Appolo 65 optical detectors which will mean replacing the bases.
Location (mostly) are in middle of room.
I suppose it would be best to keep the HD's where they are next to the bathroom
What do you folk think is a reasonable charge (per SD) to change and commision (incl supple)

Offline Davidrh

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HD/SD Installation
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2008, 11:53:39 AM »
Sorry..I should have mention I have about 50 to change

Chris Houston

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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2008, 12:16:40 PM »
Electrical work and fire alarm work are different skills.  You might find someone who has fire alarm skills and is also a qualified electrician, but you cannot assume competancy to work on fire alarm systems on the basis of electrical qualifications.  I am sure many of us on here could list numerous examples of systems worked on by electrical contractors with the wrong type of cable, or smoke detectors stuck half way up walls etc.

I'd get a few quotes from independent fire alarm companies.  The larger ones can sometimes put out silly prices for odd jobs that they are not really too keen on winning.

Maybe if you tell us your location you might even get some FireNetters happy to give you a quote????