connecting fire doors

[Mushy]

Hi

I was at my new dentist the other day which is four floors (although the ground floor is just a staircase enclosure to the first floor) and it appears that because it is single escape there are two fire doors to the first and second floor staircase enclosure...(don't know what's on the top floor)

Something that I have never seen before though and the purpose of this post,  one of these double fire doors were close to each other and had an 'arm' connecting the two doors...so when one opens, the other one opens as well! Is this a 'improvised' thing or is it a manufacturers design?

[nearlythere]

Hi

I was at my new dentist the other day which is four floors (although the ground floor is just a staircase enclosure to the first floor) and it appears that because it is single escape there are two fire doors to the first and second floor staircase enclosure...(don't know what's on the top floor)

Something that I have never seen before though and the purpose of this post,  one of these double fire doors were close to each other and had an 'arm' connecting the two doors...so when one opens, the other one opens as well! Is this a 'improvised' thing or is it a manufacturers design?

I take it the doors formed a small lobby?
How far apart were the doors?
Did one door only have a self closer with them both relying on it?
Were they easily opened?
Did they close properly?
Sounds like a good idea, I think?

[kurnal]

I take it the doors formed a small lobby?
How far apart were the doors?
Did one door only have a self closer with them both relying on it?
Were they easily opened?
Did they close properly?
Sounds like a good idea, I think?

Sounds like it was a way to create double door protection to the single staircase building. Is it what was intended by the guys who wrote the initial guidance promoting this approach for life safety? I doubt it.

The use of two doors so close together is commonly used for compartmentation purposes- but smoke control is not critical to compartmentation. It is to life safety.

Two doors so close together and linked would
1-provide no opportunity for any smoke reservoir of any size at all in the lobby
2- if the doors were linked then if one was slightly ajar the other would also be ajar
3- provide no opportunity for a lobby to protect the stair as both doors are open at the same time as people pass through.

Whilst I am a firm believer in the benefits of double door protection if properly designed into the building from the outset, I hate to see contrived solutions to achieve it retrospectively.  The creation of artificial lobbies ruins buildings and is usually ineffective. In my opinion of course.

[Midland Retty]

Hi Mushy

I've never come across the type of device you have describe above.

As Kurnal states it renders the lobby inaffective for the purpose it was deigned for.

I wonder if this contraption has been added purely for convenience - i.e staff do not have to keep opening two doors - carrying stuff through etc etc?

Out of interest - just to be sure Ive understood your post correctly - are you saying that you have got two doors, the first opens into a small lobby, and from that lobby is another door accessing the staircase and that these two doors are joined together?

Or are you describing, or two fire doors side by side one another?

[Mushy]

Thanks all

"Out of interest - just to be sure Ive understood your post correctly - are you saying that you have got two doors, the first opens into a small lobby, and from that lobby is another door accessing the staircase and that these two doors are joined together?"

That's the one MR

the two doors are close to each other...you could touch one while going through the other and they open towards each other...I carry me little camera everywhere and took a sneaky photo ...but haven't got a clue how to put it up here...I could email it if anyone is interested

it is a very strange contraption...but they both opened and closed ok

How long a time span have self closing doors got to close fully?

[Midland Retty]

Hi Mushy

There is no prescribed time span for a self closer to shut the door. Obviously common sense plays its part  -you wouldn't want a door that closes too quickly in say a residential care home or other premises where persons with mobility difficulties are present.

[nearlythere]

Thanks all

"Out of interest - just to be sure Ive understood your post correctly - are you saying that you have got two doors, the first opens into a small lobby, and from that lobby is another door accessing the staircase and that these two doors are joined together?"

That's the one MR

the two doors are close to each other...you could touch one while going through the other and they open towards each other...I carry me little camera everywhere and took a sneaky photo ...but haven't got a clue how to put it up here...I could email it if anyone is interested

it is a very strange contraption...but they both opened and closed ok

How long a time span have self closing doors got to close fully?

I thought the doors opened in the same direction with a linkage arm joining both. Sounds that there has been a little engineering gone into this if they open in opposite directions.

[Midland Retty]

Sorry missed the bit about them opening in towards each other!

The plot thickens... sounds like some kind of DIY device possibly?

Probably not applicable here but worth bearing in mind doors should open in direction of escape if more than 60 persons are likely to use that exit

[Mushy]

nearlythere...you should have mail

[nearlythere]

nearlythere...you should have mail

Presumably they do not have any form of keepers to keep the door closed on the non hinged side but I see that the self closer is in a protected area.

[AnthonyB]

I can post the picture if it is forwarded.....

[Mushy]

Here you go...hope it works!

[messy]

No - not for me. not even when I tried to copy the address into my browser

[Mushy]

? ?

Isn't there a photo up on the forum?...I can see one

[kurnal]

I cant