Class 0 Linings

[Big T]

I need a bit of advice regarding class o linings

A lot of our property is painted with normal emulsion rather than a specific fire resistant coating. I am aware that over time these finishes build up and can become less than class o (about ten layers I understand)

The question is. How significant an issue is the build up of paint layers contributing to an increased fire spread and is upgrading to a specific system such as Timinox from Crown etc worth the 7x the cost quotes we are receiving.

[nearlythere]

I need a bit of advice regarding class o linings

A lot of our property is painted with normal emulsion rather than a specific fire resistant coating. I am aware that over time these finishes build up and can become less than class o (about ten layers I understand)

The question is. How significant an issue is the build up of paint layers contributing to an increased fire spread and is upgrading to a specific system such as Timinox from Crown etc worth the 7x the cost quotes we are receiving.

What type of surface is the paint on?

[Davo]

Big T

FRM March 2008 p 42 covered this very topic following a fire at a hospital I believe.
The FRS were concerned at how fast the fire had spread down the corridor and had some tests done.
Indeed the paint had caused the rapid spread.
Reading the article, its says paint contributed to spread at KC and several other high rise flat fires.
Its a must read for you, e-mail me and I will pdf a copy if you cannot get hold of a copy.

davo

[wee brian]

http://www.warringtonfire.net/default.asp?DepartmentID=3&SectionID=74&SubsectionID=51

may be worth a look

[nearlythere]

http://www.warringtonfire.net/default.asp?DepartmentID=3&SectionID=74&SubsectionID=51

may be worth a look

Warringtonfire's literature says that

"Prior to occupation of the building, there is an obligation to use paint that restricts the spread of smoke and fire. The paint is fire tested to ensure that it provides the required fire performance. However, it has been believed in the past that when the buildings are redecorated, the protection is not reduced. The fires referred to above, several of which have resulted in fatalities, have proved this to be wrong."

I read this that Warringtonfire is referring to a paint applied to a class 1, or worse, substraight to provide a nominal class "0" SSF whereas Big T is talking about the build up of layers of emulsion paint which is applied to a Class 0 substraight for decorative purposes only. I think.

I'm sure that persistant redecorating using intumescant paints or varnishes on top of unprepared existing coverings can result in the degrading of the required classification due to a physical breakdown.

[Davo]

nearlythere

you have mail!

davo

[nearlythere]

nearlythere

you have mail!

davo

Thanks Davo
I think I would have liked to have seen a better description of to the types of paints referred to throughout the document. It is not clear whether the problem applies to emulsions as well as oil based paints.

[Big T]

It is essentially the painting of emulsion onto a class O substrate. And it is indeed the build up of a paint (water based emulsion specificaly) over time. We are talking a maximum of 8 thin layers of paint at the current guesstimate

The difficulty I have is that a straight forward redec of a communal area is approximately £1000 compared to £7000 for a specific class O paint (Timinox or similar) from someone like Crown

In areas of a sterile environment like communal areas of flats etc is fire spread of this nature a huge issue?

What I dont want to do is authorise a paint system 7 x more expensive than the obvious choice of a normal vinyl silk emulsion etc.

[nearlythere]

It is essentially the painting of emulsion onto a class O substrate. And it is indeed the build up of a paint (water based emulsion specificaly) over time. We are talking a maximum of 8 thin layers of paint at the current guesstimate

The difficulty I have is that a straight forward redec of a communal area is approximately £1000 compared to £7000 for a specific class O paint (Timinox or similar) from someone like Crown

In areas of a sterile environment like communal areas of flats etc is fire spread of this nature a huge issue?

What I dont want to do is authorise a paint system 7 x more expensive than the obvious choice of a normal vinyl silk emulsion etc.

The point I am making BigT is that the article wee brian refers to is vague regarding the type of paint that the author is writing about.
Maybe someone will clarify this soon.

[Big T]

I have read both the link Wee B sent and a document that Davo kindly emailed me.

I understand fully the issues surrounding multi layered paint but the big issue I need guidance on is whether or not it is an issue high up on the risk list or not.

Does painting a staircase in a normal off the shelf emulsion cause a serious issue? If it does why can we buy it off the shelf and why aren't the fire services warning us of the risks in our own homes.

The only information I can get my hands on is from companies with a vested interest in spreading the word. ie paint companies and paint laboratories.

Is it an issues that needs prioritisation in an organisation over all the other fire safety related issues, such as training, risk assessment, improvements to fire doors and fire alalrms etc or is continuing the painting strategy accross an organisation as large as ours as acceptable today as it has been for the last 20 years? Perhaps looking to upgrade a percentage of the companies properties to a commercial class o system such as Tor or Crown coatings?

[nearlythere]

I have read both the link Wee B sent and a document that Davo kindly emailed me.

I understand fully the issues surrounding multi layered paint but the big issue I need guidance on is whether or not it is an issue high up on the risk list or not.

Does painting a staircase in a normal off the shelf emulsion cause a serious issue? If it does why can we buy it off the shelf and why aren't the fire services warning us of the risks in our own homes.

The only information I can get my hands on is from companies with a vested interest in spreading the word. ie paint companies and paint laboratories.

Is it an issues that needs prioritisation in an organisation over all the other fire safety related issues, such as training, risk assessment, improvements to fire doors and fire alalrms etc or is continuing the painting strategy accross an organisation as large as ours as acceptable today as it has been for the last 20 years? Perhaps looking to upgrade a percentage of the companies properties to a commercial class o system such as Tor or Crown coatings?

I would have thought that the painting of a stairway is not an issue Big T. A stairway is not a wall or ceiling lining.

[Big T]

By staircase I mean a hall, stairs and landing, not the actual stairs.

[Fishy]

Depends on the property.  It's almost inconceivable that the paint alone could be ignited using a small fire source, but if you have (or could have) a decent-sized fire source then it could be a problem as the paint will contribute to the fire and could be very smoky.  You might have a stairwell that's nominally 'sterile' - but then a tenant chucks their old sofa out & suddenly you've got a multi-megawatt fire source on the landing!

There's also the 'maintenance' part of the RR(FS)O to consider - when the building was built it's likely that the walls were Class '0'.  This is a fire risk reduction measure in the same way as a fire alarm system, so if someone fails to maintain the performance (e.g. by allowing uncontrolled over-painting) and this places persons at risk then I guess they could be liable to enforcement?

[kurnal]

Big T
As usual you are to be congratulated on your diligence, I believe that you should  take a proportionate view on this.  

The suitability of a material for use in a building will depend on may factors. How easy is it to ignite, what is its rate of heat release, how fast will flame spread across the surface, how much smoke will it produce, how much will it contribute to the total heat output of the fire.

If my foggy memory serves me correctly I thought that the video that was produced by the BRE at the time indicated a problem with flaking multi layers of oil based paint on corridors- perhaps John W may have some recollection of this.

Clearly oil based paints will contirbute many of the above negative characteristics, but whilst  emulsion paint in good condition may or may not have a satisfactory surface spread of flame characteristic  it should be satisfactory in the other respects. After all its usually the contents of a building rather than the structure that have the greatest effect on size and rate of growth of a fire. And there should be no contents in the common escape routes! So we are left with the risk of someone leaving their flat door open- or a door failing in a fire- and exposing the escape route to the effects of fire. Can you see a situation where the rate of surface spread of fire across emulsion paint would be a problem here? How much is it likely to be a problem?

Take a look at the attached table. Its the test result for a proprietory products fire test- but what is interesting is the comparison between several different surface finishes.

http://www.eclipse-wallcoverings.co.uk/fire_test.html

In the scheme of things in this particular test of this particular product  the type of paint finish over the substrate did not appear to make a significant difference.

Finally in balance I should make the point  that we should maintain the building to the same standard as was originally given approval under Building Regulations. I cannot think of many new buildings in which the approved surface finish was not emulsion paint.

I would look at your buildings and take a risk based view. I would put flock wallpapers and poorly adhered multiple layers of oil paint at very high risk , wood chip, vinyl wall finishes at highish risk, multi layer emulsion in poor condition at moderate risk and   in good contion at low risk.
I would then balance this with the setting- single staircase or dead end corridors high risk, furnished common rooms as medium risk, corridors and stairs in multi stairway buildings with two way travel as low risk.

All my opinion and would be very happy to hear alternative views.