Sort of detection in disabled room ?

[Benzerari]

In a student accommodation, all rooms have heat detectors except the one in ground floor, for disabled students, they have smoke detectors. The disabled rooms are just a bit wider, they have got exactly what ordinary rooms have. So in what basis these disabled rooms should be covered with SD instead of HD?

And what recommendation and/or legislation are stating that?

Thank you

[GregC]

BS5839 pt1 :2002 21.1.8 3) note 2 (page48)


(just so happens I was reading that this morning for a new design at a health club/hotel and I left it open on my desk)

[Benzerari]

BS5839 pt1 :2002 21.1.8 3) note 2 (page48)


(just so happens I was reading that this morning for a new design at a health club/hotel and I left it open on my desk)

many thanks GregC, I found it:  

(Note 2:   ..... for mobility-impaired disabled people who require additional time to escape from a fire in their bedroom.)

So, it's a matter of time to escape then, since SDs are more sensitive then HDs, but this may causes false alarms too thought!

[Benzerari]

You can never discover these bits only once they happen

[Benzerari]

BS5839 pt1 :2002 21.1.8 3) note 2 (page48)


(just so happens I was reading that this morning for a new design at a health club/hotel and I left it open on my desk)

many thanks GregC, I found it:  

(Note 2:   ..... for mobility-impaired disabled people who require additional time to escape from a fire in their bedroom.)

So, it's a matter of time to escape then, since SDs are more sensitive then HDs, but this may causes false alarms too thought!

But what about false alarms did BS think about?

[colin todd]

IT was also the party line for certification of hotels under the FP Act and its about trying to give disabed people equivalence with able bodied.

[Benzerari]

IT was also the party line for certification of hotels under the FP Act and its about trying to give disabed people equivalence with able bodied.

Fairly clair Colin, and thanks for that, but curing evil by evil, you will get evil. Which is false alarms, which costs billions too.

[Galeon]

A copious amount of so called unwanted false alarms , can be assigned to bad housekeeping and general stupid actions by people .
Lack of proper maintenance also contributes to this.

[Benzerari]

A copious amount of so called unwanted false alarms , can be assigned to bad housekeeping and general stupid actions by people .
Lack of proper maintenance also contributes to this.

You see Gal;

If false alarms have been taken seriously into consideration, probably BS recommendations will have major changes!

[colin todd]

IT was also the party line for certification of hotels under the FP Act and its about trying to give disabed people equivalence with able bodied.

Fairly clair Colin, and thanks for that, but curing evil by evil, you will get evil. Which is false alarms, which costs billions too.

All risk assessment involves a balance. On one scale is the cost , time and trouble of adopting a measure. In the other is the risk if the measure is not adopted. Failing to give the earliest possible warning of a fire to a person who may not be able to escape from the said fire without assistance is a risk that outweighs the cost time and trouble of providing the warning. That was the thinking of Central Government (who are not evil, just frequently quite stupid, but not, as it happens, on this occasion) and remained the view of those responsible for BS 5839-1.

[Benzerari]

IT was also the party line for certification of hotels under the FP Act and its about trying to give disabed people equivalence with able bodied.

Fairly clair Colin, and thanks for that, but curing evil by evil, you will get evil. Which is false alarms, which costs billions too.

All risk assessment involves a balance. On one scale is the cost , time and trouble of adopting a measure. In the other is the risk if the measure is not adopted. Failing to give the earliest possible warning of a fire to a person who may not be able to escape from the said fire without assistance is a risk that outweighs the cost time and trouble of providing the warning. That was the thinking of Central Government (who are not evil, just frequently quite stupid, but not, as it happens, on this occasion) and remained the view of those responsible for BS 5839-1.

Yes indeed, you are absolutely right, you see how limited humans we are, we just do our best, in a given space and time, and our decisions, may be proven wrong afterwards, by any one else living in a different space and time...etc

Finally, no one else is to blame, since we just decide according to our available (and actual) knowledge, in our space and time...

[Galeon]

A copious amount of so called unwanted false alarms , can be assigned to bad housekeeping and general stupid actions by people .
Lack of proper maintenance also contributes to this.

You see Gal;

If false alarms have been taken seriously into consideration, probably BS recommendations will have major changes!

Benz ,
I don't agree , its an outside influence , which is not a constant , you cant factor this , no different if you don't check your car for oil , and the engine blows up , do you go back to say Ford and say there is no oil in my car 3 years later. What the person should do is say looks like I got an oil leak , fix it engine don't blow.
It is common sense , which should be offered free on the NHS and forcibly injected to some of the population who don't seem to have any about them.

[Benzerari]

A copious amount of so called unwanted false alarms , can be assigned to bad housekeeping and general stupid actions by people .
Lack of proper maintenance also contributes to this.

You see Gal;

If false alarms have been taken seriously into consideration, probably BS recommendations will have major changes!

Benz ,
I don't agree , its an outside influence , which is not a constant , you cant factor this , no different if you don't check your car for oil , and the engine blows up , do you go back to say Ford and say there is no oil in my car 3 years later. What the person should do is say looks like I got an oil leak , fix it engine don't blow.
It is common sense , which should be offered free on the NHS and forcibly injected to some of the population who don't seem to have any about them.

Humans in general, try to cope with outside influences, and to overcome them, but in the limit of (there is no travel backward through time and try to correct, what have been damaged in the past), there is no  proof uptill now, that travel backward through time is approved, even 'Albert Einstein' certainly hoped to see it real one day!

Unfortunately it's impossible in our human dimension, probably in a different dimention

Finally that's what proves that, BS as it is now, is not the final thoughts and findings, in any given space and time, and will never be...

Things keep changing and progressing mate

[kurnal]

. Failing to give the earliest possible warning of a fire to a person who may not be able to escape from the said fire without assistance is a risk that outweighs the cost time and trouble of providing the warning. That was the thinking of Central Government (who are not evil, just frequently quite stupid, but not, as it happens, on this occasion) and remained the view of those responsible for BS 5839-1.

Colin be careful. Some of us may percieve a  possible chink in your highly polished armour in respect of previous discussions over the the provision of smoke detectors Vs heat detectors in hotel bedrooms. You have always been very clear that the detector in a room is there to protect the escape routes and not the occupant of the room and that a heat detector in rooms will achieve this objective in tandem with the fire resisting door, without creating unwanted signals.

Are you suggesting that the intention of the smoke detector in the disabled room is to alert the occupant of the room in the incipient stages of the fire in order to maximise the time available to make their own escape, or is it to alert others with responsibility to go and assist the disabled person in the event of the fire in their room?

[Benzerari]

Are you suggesting that the intention of the smoke detector in the disabled room is to alert the occupant of the room in the incipient stages of the fire in order to maximize the time available to make their own escape, or is it to alert others with responsibility to go and assist the disabled person in the event of the fire in their room?

I think this is clearly explained by (Note 2...)  Mentioned by CregC earlier in page 48 of BS5839 part 1, the paragraph doesn't state any thing about your second bit (....to alert others with responsibility to go and assist the disabled person in the event of the fire in their room), but probably in a different paragraphs... etc and in that case what is it?