International fire safety standards ???

[Benzerari]

Would it be possible to apply some countries or state's fire safety standards, to any other given country, regardless of the political decision, I mean just from technical point of view?

If Yes! State why?

If No! State why?

Thank you

[Benzerari]

It seems globalization has affected every thing..., except fire and safety standards and codes ?

[Benzerari]

In NFPA standards i.e. the smoke detectors spacing coverage is 30 feet, roughly = 10m of radius coverage, while in BS 5839 it's just 7.5 m, it is quite remarkable difference?

It‘s 25% difference?

[Graeme]

It seems globalization has affected every thing..., except fire and safety standards and codes ?

good. Have you seen fire systems when you go abroad?

[Allen Higginson]

In NFPA standards i.e. the smoke detectors spacing coverage is 30 feet, roughly = 10m of radius coverage, while in BS 5839 it's just 7.5 m, it is quite remarkable difference?

It‘s 25% difference?

B enz
In a square and uniform room the detector spacing is 10 metres between each detector under the BS - are you confusing your spacing with radius here??

[Benzerari]

In NFPA standards i.e. the smoke detectors spacing coverage is 30 feet, roughly = 10m of radius coverage, while in BS 5839 it's just 7.5 m, it is quite remarkable difference?

It‘s 25% difference?

B enz
In a square and uniform room the detector spacing is 10 metres between each detector under the BS - are you confusing your spacing with radius here??

indeed there are specific spacing for square and/or rectangle rooms, but the general radius coverage is 7.5m, and between two detectors is 15m not 10m... etc, but this is not the main issue... etc

The main question is as quoted above

[Allen Higginson]

In NFPA standards i.e. the smoke detectors spacing coverage is 30 feet, roughly = 10m of radius coverage, while in BS 5839 it's just 7.5 m, it is quite remarkable difference?

It‘s 25% difference?

B enz
In a square and uniform room the detector spacing is 10 metres between each detector under the BS - are you confusing your spacing with radius here??

indeed there are specific spacing for square and/or rectangle rooms, but the general radius coverage is 7.5m, and between two detectors is 15m not 10m... etc, but this is not the main issue... etc

The main question is as quoted above

Sorry Benz but have to disagree there.It's given that (in the case of a smoke detector) that the maximum distance between the detector and any given point in a protected area (under a flat ceiling) is 7.5 metres.Taking that the furthest point in an area is to the corner (as per pythagoris) then the "radius" must extend outside the protected area to cover the corners.To achieve this a distance no more than 10 metres between detectors can accomodate this (excluding corridors where you can go up to 15 metres if it does not exceed 2 metres in width).

[Benzerari]

B enz
In a square and uniform room the detector spacing is 10 metres between each detector under the BS - are you confusing your spacing with radius here??

indeed there are specific spacing for square and/or rectangle rooms, but the general radius coverage is 7.5m, and between two detectors is 15m not 10m... etc, but this is not the main issue... etc

The main question is as quoted above

Sorry Benz but have to disagree there.It's given that (in the case of a smoke detector) that the maximum distance between the detector and any given point in a protected area (under a flat ceiling) is 7.5 metres.Taking that the furthest point in an area is to the corner (as per pythagoris) then the "radius" must extend outside the protected area to cover the corners.To achieve this a distance no more than 10 metres between detectors can accomodate this (excluding corridors where you can go up to 15 metres if it does not exceed 2 metres in width).

Indeed, but this is not the main issue, the main question is as quoted above

[Allen Higginson]

indeed there are specific spacing for square and/or rectangle rooms, but the general radius coverage is 7.5m, and between two detectors is 15m not 10m... etc, but this is not the main issue... etc

The main question is as quoted above :)

Sorry Benz but have to disagree there.It's given that (in the case of a smoke detector) that the maximum distance between the detector and any given point in a protected area (under a flat ceiling) is 7.5 metres.Taking that the furthest point in an area is to the corner (as per pythagoris) then the "radius" must extend outside the protected area to cover the corners.To achieve this a distance no more than 10 metres between detectors can accomodate this (excluding corridors where you can go up to 15 metres if it does not exceed 2 metres in width).

Indeed, but this is not the main issue, the main question is as quoted above :)

I was only clarifying your concerns/comments on detector spacing - with regards to an international fire standard,well,any standard is only as good as the levels of compliance and judging by how many "professionals" even within the UK can't follow the basics then I don't see the point.
Other than for trading purposes of course.

[nearlythere]

Sorry Benz but have to disagree there.It's given that (in the case of a smoke detector) that the maximum distance between the detector and any given point in a protected area (under a flat ceiling) is 7.5 metres.Taking that the furthest point in an area is to the corner (as per pythagoris) then the "radius" must extend outside the protected area to cover the corners.To achieve this a distance no more than 10 metres between detectors can accomodate this (excluding corridors where you can go up to 15 metres if it does not exceed 2 metres in width).

Indeed, but this is not the main issue, the main question is as quoted above

I was only clarifying your concerns/comments on detector spacing - with regards to an international fire standard,well,any standard is only as good as the levels of compliance and judging by how many "professionals" even within the UK can't follow the basics then I don't see the point.
Other than for trading purposes of course.

Of course we have to remember that this is a recommendation. If one has a room 15M by 15M would one detector be sufficient? What about 14M by 14M? 13M by 13M? Or must it be no more than 10M by 10M for one detector? Are fire risks right in the corner of a room? Do we need to sit back, take a breath and start to think about the real world?
Why does one use a rule of thumb for fire extinguishers when the fire load can vary so much but unquestioned science is needed for the level of detection for smoke?
If you are talking about the BS then it is recommended the 7.5M rule applies. In the real world do we have to be that pernickety?

[Allen Higginson]

Indeed, but this is not the main issue, the main question is as quoted above

I was only clarifying your concerns/comments on detector spacing - with regards to an international fire standard,well,any standard is only as good as the levels of compliance and judging by how many "professionals" even within the UK can't follow the basics then I don't see the point.
Other than for trading purposes of course.

Of course we have to remember that this is a recommendation. If one has a room 15M by 15M would one detector be sufficient? What about 14M by 14M? 13M by 13M? Or must it be no more than 10M by 10M for one detector? Are fire risks right in the corner of a room? Do we need to sit back, take a breath and start to think about the real world?
Why does one use a rule of thumb for fire extinguishers when the fire load can vary so much but unquestioned science is needed for the level of detection for smoke?
If you are talking about the BS then it is recommended the 7.5M rule applies. In the real world do we have to be that pernickety?

I don't think that the 7.5 metre rule was pulled out of the air (or maybe I'm too trusting?).
You would  have to increase te accepted radius of coverage of a point smoke detector to 10.6 metres if you were to be happy to take one detector for 15 by 15 when in fact you need 3 (225 square metres).

[Chris Houston]

This topic wasn't started to discuss detector spacing.  I politely request that posters get back on topic.

To answer the question - I'm my opinion, yes.  It would be "possible", but most probably very complex to the point of almost impossibility unless the countries are very similar and have for many years adopted the same standards.  For example we could not ask a German site to install an alarm system to Category P2 as per BS 5839 because there are no call centres in Germany that would meet the British Standard referenced in 5839.  We could not ask a site in Papua New Guinea to instal a system as the components needed are not available.  

But if for example UAE used NPFA standards in all buildings over a perdiod of years then it would be possible to apply such a standard.  Or we could probably ask a site in the Republic of Ireland to use British Standards.

[Allen Higginson]

This topic wasn't started to discuss detector spacing.  I politely request that posters get back on topic.

To answer the question - I'm my opinion, yes.  It would be "possible", but most probably very complex to the point of almost impossibility unless the countries are very similar and have for many years adopted the same standards.  For example we could not ask a German site to install an alarm system to Category P2 as per BS 5839 because there are no call centres in Germany that would meet the British Standard referenced in 5839.  We could not ask a site in Papua New Guinea to instal a system as the components needed are not available.  

But if for example UAE used NPFA standards in all buildings over a perdiod of years then it would be possible to apply such a standard.  Or we could probably ask a site in the Republic of Ireland to use British Standards.

Apologies and noted - I have enough trouble getting systems/equipment here to the BS as opposed to IS standards so I doubt that it would work on that basis.
Surely an EN standard is the first step to a harmony of standards?

[davidandrewsuk]

It would seem to make sense that the correct way to prevent a fire in a building in country X should be no different if that same building anywhere else in the world

That we have different standards is likely based on a mixture of reasons such as:-
     - Economic Status of country
            - Education
            - Prosperity
     - Style of government
     - Fire disaster precedents set

You could introduce international standards across the board but it is unlikely that any countries methods and styles of fire protection would change as it's attitudes and levels towards it are based on the above which do not change overnight.

If fire protection to BS standard was implemented in sweatshops in china then the business would go under in a week, I would guess?

Just my tuppence worth.

[kurnal]

Why should we try to impose our standards on other nations?

Why not let them decide for themselves their priorites and thresholds of tolerable risk.

This smacks of imperialism.