Fire and Intruder

[GregC]

Most are aware of the problems with using a single RedCare/Communicator device for both fire and intruder systems.

Its overcomable for standard REDCare by fitting two stu's but interestingly there doesnt seem to be a PSU thats BS5839 rated for a REDCare GSM, the ones I have seen are 24volt but the REDCare GSM is 12volt.

There are ways to appear to be compliant but several years on from its launch there doesnt seem to be a way to easily comply.

Anyone know different ?

[Thomas Brookes]

I fairly sure you can get a fire stu thats 24volts.

[Benzerari]

http://www.tycoemea.com/english/pdf/datasht/intruder/psi200a.pdf

I think you are right 

[Graeme]

I fairly sure you can get a fire stu thats 24volts.

The FireStu is a 24v redcare 3 pin STU sold by gardiners .

GSM benz if you read your link is 12v backed up by mobile in event of landline failure.

[Benzerari]

I fairly sure you can get a fire stu thats 24volts.

The FireStu is a 24v redcare 3 pin STU sold by gardiners .

GSM benz if you read your link is 12v backed up by mobile in event of landline failure.

Indeed, I meant GregC is right

[colin todd]

You can almost certainly use one STU if its a firestu and you place it alongside the CIE. The only problem is it may then be in the wrong location for intruder.

[Benzerari]

You can almost certainly use one STU if its a firestu and you place it alongside the CIE. The only problem is it may then be in the wrong location for intruder.

I think the main issue in here is the feed, 12Vdc? or 24Vdc?

[GregC]

You can almost certainly use one STU if its a firestu and you place it alongside the CIE. The only problem is it may then be in the wrong location for intruder.

There isnt a Fire Stu that is compliant with Intruder grade 3 to my knowledge.

[Benzerari]

You can almost certainly use one STU if its a firestu and you place it alongside the CIE. The only problem is it may then be in the wrong location for intruder.

There isnt a Fire Stu that is compliant with Intruder grade 3 to my knowledge.

Haven't got a clue what's grade 3 of intruder, probably intruder alarm needs a special forum to be added in here

[GregC]

Off topic slightly but very basically and not indepth explanation of intruder grades

Intruder alarms are graded 1 to 4, Grade 1 is B&Q special, Grade 2 is what you would expect in a house and connected through a digital communicator, Grade 3 is what most insurance companies require for buisness use, using Redcare and redcare GMS, Grade 4 is banks etc (only certain companies can source Grade 4 equipment)

Intruder equipment is manufacturerd to the standards requirements for each grade.

The issue is that the Intruder system is only as good as its worst component, you could have all Grade 3 equipment but a door contact fitted as Grade 2 would mean the system is a Grade 2 system.

Hence you cant use a fire alarm power supply in a Grade 3 systems as it isnt manufactured to Grade 3 requirements or you can but its not compliant.

This isnt my problem, my problem is in fact the reverse, I cannot source a BS5839 rated power supply for a 12v Redcare GSM STU

[Benzerari]

Haven't got much clue about burglar alarms and their grades but I would keep them separate from fire alarm if I were you! I wouldn’t monitor them with the same STU, for your case you can interface a power supply that gives you an output feed of 12Vdc and it’s done… etc

[Graeme]

You can almost certainly use one STU if its a firestu and you place it alongside the CIE. The only problem is it may then be in the wrong location for intruder.

and the intruder requires a few pins so the firestu would not be enough.

a redcare firestu could go on the same line as an intruder digi but not two redcares.

[scouse]

Can`t see the problem here, its common practice to connect a fire alarm panel onto PIN 1 of a Redcare, or Redcare GSM or Dual Com or whatever signalling path is used ie digital dialler or network ip.

Usually the company installing the fire alarm runs two pairs of cables from the fire panel to the intruder panel (in FP rated cable), as this is usually the location of the signalling. These two pairs are fed by fire panel outputs/relays to give two dry contact connections (no-voltage being present), one for fire fault(if available) and one for fire activation.

At this point we (the intruder engineers) are responsible for connecting onto the communications equipment, as from a security point of view, only the installing/maintaining engineer of the intruder panel should have access to its signalling equipment.

.....more and more sites have a dedicated redcare for the fire panel, but it is still normal practice for the intruder engineer to maintain the signalling equipment!

[Big_Fella]

Surely if the fire alarm company provides monitoring for the fire alarm system via there monitoring station, this should be maintained by the fire alarm company?

[scouse]

usually if someone is getting a fire system fitted they tend to be getting a security system aswell, its cost effective to pay for one monitoring cost.

monitoring stations cover all disciplines intruder/fire/cctv/access control, i dont know of a fire specific monitoring solution.