BS5839-1 2002 upgrading old FD+A systems.

[Graeme]

Would appreciate your expert views on the following please;

As a Fire Alarm Engineer i often come across older systems in which the detection zones are wired in standard twin and earth cable.If i was asked to extend this system i would do so in Fire resistant cable in accordance with 2002 and issue a modification certificate but also point the wiring out as a variation.
But what if for example i had a customer with above system and his control panel fails or if all the detectors need upgrading?Normally i would advise him that the system wiring does not comply and give him the option of repalcing panel and list all the variations or offer a new system.
Most customers i have experienced won't entertain the hassle of a rewire or the cost of a wire free and accept the variations and sign for them.
Is this covering me for everything or is there something else i should offer or do?

Thanks
Graeme.

[Colin Newman]

In my opinion there's not much more you an do.  We'd all like to ensure that installations are provided to the highest standard to mitigate risk, but we can't insist that customers spend their money.

You have a duty to ensure that your customer is fully aware of the issues and the resultant risk.  

It is for your customer to ensure that those charged with undertaking risk asessments and managing fire risks mitigate the shortcomings in the system.

[colin todd]

I would tend to agree, and in Building Regs terms you are not making an existing non compliance worse. You might need to be careful though, as, if it is that old, the MCPs may have no series resistors, and operation of a manual call point could then, with a new panel, give you a fault signal rather than a fire signal!

[Graeme]

Thank you for replies.

It has always been a niggling doubt im my mind with regards cable but this has helped put it at rest.
I have come across a few horror scenes with regards to installations,some i have politely refused to offer a service contract because thay have had detectors at chest height on a wall,6 alarm circuits into 2 in the panel with the e.o.l resistors and the best yet a detector facing upwards on a curtain pelmet.
When upgrading an older system i would normally install 680 ohm mcp's and upgrade detectors with didode bases and replace panel to create a 'head removal system' but usually  left with the twin and earth scenario.
So this has helped alot.
Thanks again
Graeme Millar