BS4737 !

[Benzerari]

Have seen recently a conventional fire alarm panel marked as designed to BS4737, what are those standards? Are they still applicable to some specific applications? Or are outdated?

Thank you

[Galeon]

Intruder systems .

[Benzerari]

Intruder systems .

So intruder system used for both fire and burglar alarms then?

[Galeon]

yes , but non compliant outside domestic use for fire .

[nearlythere]

yes , but non compliant outside domestic use for fire .

Compliance with what Galeon?

[SeanW]

As far as I am aware BS4737 is solely Intruder which you can have smoke detectors fitted to your intruder alarm and also monitored for fire on channel 1.

I have never seen a fire panel labeled BS4737.

That is my opinion. I could be wrong but would be surprised.

That would be compliant for a domestic installation but not Public/Business Etc.

[nearlythere]

As far as I am aware BS4737 is solely Intruder which you can have smoke detectors fitted to your intruder alarm and also monitored for fire on channel 1.

I have never seen a fire panel labeled BS4737.

That is my opinion. I could be wrong but would be surprised.

That would be compliant for a domestic installation but not Public/Business Etc.

Hi SeanW. Compliant with what?

[Galeon]

In a scenario such I have seen on numerous occasion's where the intruder system has been extended to facilitate smoke detection in some half witted attempt not to have a system aka 5839 p1 2002.
Please note you can do what you like in your own house , in relation to a private dwelling.

[Allen Higginson]

In a scenario such I have seen on numerous occasion's where the intruder system has been extended to facilitate smoke detection in some half witted attempt not to have a system aka 5839 p1 2002.
Please note you can do what you like in your own house , in relation to a private dwelling.

Could be complying to a Grade C system under Part 6.

[nearlythere]

In a scenario such I have seen on numerous occasion's where the intruder system has been extended to facilitate smoke detection in some half witted attempt not to have a system aka 5839 p1 2002.
Please note you can do what you like in your own house , in relation to a private dwelling.

Hi Galleon
What are you suggesting? It has to be in compliance with BS5839 Pt1 and nothing else? Why?

[Benzerari]

As far as I am aware BS4737 is solely Intruder which you can have smoke detectors fitted to your intruder alarm and also monitored for fire on channel 1.

I have never seen a fire panel labeled BS4737.

That is my opinion. I could be wrong but would be surprised.

That would be compliant for a domestic installation but not Public/Business Etc.

I have seen it for the first time ever SeanW, it's fitted in a Mosque, but the building certainly was some thing else, and has many alterations taken place, it isn’t new built, but why not the system hasn't been replaced or upgraded according to a new fire risk assessment and the current standards, I don't know!

Also what sort of standards are applicable to Mosques, Churches and worship centers....? as they are normally buildings of multiple occupancies too, and if fire happens, definitely it would take more than half hour for the crowd to clear out…

[SeanW]

Hi,
I would say a Mosque,Church etc as you say is a public premises and should be protected in accordance with BS5839.

As far as BS4737 compliance I would hazard to say fire detection on this is for the purpose of a private domestic house and is the responsibility of the owner. Failing that depending on the size of a privately owned house it is down to the owner or insurance company to carry out a risk assessment as to wether it needs its own Fire Alarm System, which then would bring it under the umbrella of BS5839.

Smoke detectors etc on Intruder alarms are convenient for signalling but in my opinion apart from that are the same as domestic 240VAC Smoke detectors which are interlinked.

[Benzerari]

I have now seen the right indications;

The panel marked with BS4737 has additional info, part 2 section 1-1 and 2-1, also it's power supply marked up 519 A-B, in addition to some thing related to PAs...

Although, close to it, another fire alarm panel dead completely, marked up with FCC1 Fire Control Center, Ademco designed to BS3116 and BS5839. The building has very old sized smoke detector painted in Red..., apparently, they have no more proposes apart from decoration..., I don't know how the building is protected...!

[kurnal]

Yes Benz places of worship are covered by the Fire Safety Order 2005 and the Responsible Persons are duty bound to carry out a fire risk assessment and to have an emergency plan for the Mosque.

The guidance documents for assembly buildings published by HM  Government are the relevant standards, though there are guidance documents published by others intended to offer further guidance relevant to places of worship.

Mosques present some particular challenges in respect of the way they are used
eg 1- worshippers collecting shoes all trying to use the same exit in an emergency, 2- segregation of the sexes in different parts of the building may lead to the "summerland" effect, 3- strict hierarchy issues to overcome in an emergency- very long potential response times exacerbated by the fact that the leader of the worship may not understand or be familiar the emergency arrangements.)

None of the guidance documents I have seen address these issues effectively.   

[Benzerari]

As far as I remember I have never ever heard of fire strikes in Mosques apart from arsons..., but this will not mean that it will never happen in other normal conditions, fire safety in Mosques particularly is almost completely neglected, a part from big Mosques which have more than one entrance and exits and have staff management to take care of the building, including security CCTV and so on..., but still the issue of fire safety for the majority is very primitive if it does exist. A special fire risk assessment are more than important for each building, as most of the Mosques in this country are limited by the land to be built on and most of the cases, an existing building is just converted to worship place with no additional fire risk assessment...

I have visited churches as well couple of times when assisting religious weddings and so on..., and have seen that there is no big difference in terms of fire safety..., I agree that worship places of different faiths are under different legislation grounds, some buildings are owned by the association in charge and some are not to be owned by any one at all... Consequently; would a special fire safety codes and regulations be required for worship places to suit their specificities?