metal ties

[GregC]

If the cable is laid in basket so that the basket evenly supports the cable, I would say plastic ties would be suitable for "dressing" of the cables, metal not needed.

In slab/direct to wall/MMT2 type conduit, p clips every 300/400

The metal wraps only really apply to where the cable is "suspended" under a tray or attached to a metal conduit or other structual part of the building that is not likely to be affected by 30 mins of fire damage.

PS a smiley at the end of a sentence means I am being sarcastic 

[Wiz]

Having looked at a few data sheets from different cable manufacturers, for their types of cables (including the large manufacturers) the recommend the use of metal every 300mm H and 400mm V.  So this throws it all open, something which I have'nt realised, and stuck to the BS recommendation in the past.  Something which I think I will have to look into a bit deeper now

Big_Fella, do they actually 'recommend the use of metal or just state the required fixing spacings? Two very different things.

Surely, the only recommendation in BS is to ensure the cable fixings are of similar fire resistance as the cable and don't recommend any fixing spacings?

[Big_Fella]

They are actually recommending metal fixings, spaced at those distances.  Thats from two manufacturers for their cables.  Others may be different.

[Wiz]

They are actually recommending metal fixings, spaced at those distances.  Thats from two manufacturers for their cables.  Others may be different.

So you have done exactly what BS is basically alluding to i.e checking the specific manufacturers advice. Everyone should do the same for any cable they may use and not rely on non-specific advice, what they did with another cable last week, general rumours or over-the-fence gossip!

And because BS hasn't included specific fixing distance recommendations, when I invent my cable that meets the BS fire resistance recommendations but with fixings at 1m spacings, I can then sell it as a cost-effective alternative without being restricted by any over-specific BS recommendation!

[GregC]

Wiz, isnt that just good old fashioned pyro?

[Davo]

Speaking of which............

Is pyro always red?
Seen some orange cabling which looks the same


davo

[GregC]

It was/probably still is available in many colours.

Orange used to be for Emergency Lights I think.

[Wiz]

The covered MICC (pyro) cable (also described as 'served MICC' or 'MICV', I believe) is primarily meant for use in harsh environments. The copper covering of bare MICC will obviously be affected by dampness etc and the plastic cover reduces this liklihood. I've seen orange, white and red coverings. Orange, I think was the original colour. When othercolours were produced then red was often normally used for fire alarms and white for other low-voltage systems. However, I don't ever remember there being any precise recommendations on which colour had to be used with any particular type of system.

I'm sure many old-timers who still have their ringing tools will add to/correct the above

[Wiz]

Wiz, isnt that just good old fashioned pyro?

No, if it was I would have called it pyro and it wouldn't have been a new invention.

You should know that pyro is more expensive and harder to work with than the newer flexible fire resistant cables.

My invention is, as previously stated, a flexible fire resistant cable at the same costs as existing flexible fire resisting cable but with more widely spaced fixing requirements.

My invention will be available some time in the future, just after the time that I have actually invented it.

Now, leave my invention alone and get back to considering just why you forgot how to code XP95 call points after 10 years of practice 

[Allen Higginson]

It was great when red pyro came out as I used to hate tracing  faults in National Trust properties.You'd lift the floorboards and it was just a maze of orange pyro - everything was wired in it!!
With regards to the dil switches on the Apollo's,why can't they just make ON as ON and OFF as OFF (although it was worse in the series 90 days when ON was ON in the heads but OFF on the MCP's!!).

[GregC]

Use a cable designed for the job not a cable designed to comply with a standard was what I was once told.

Just came back from a site we are commissioning, electrical contractor has decided not to use the knockouts but to make a large 50-60mm hole in the back, now no room for the batteries, also the mains enters in the same opening, in twin and earth, checked behind the unswitched spur and yep, twin and earth.

Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....

[Wiz]

.....With regards to the dil switches on the Apollo's,why can't they just make ON as ON and OFF as OFF (although it was worse in the series 90 days when ON was ON in the heads but OFF on the MCP's!!).

Buzz, the reason for this is that Apollo coding is actually done by turning switches off instead of on (as you might otherwise assume from the normal way of thinking about binary coding)

When you take the pip out of the base coding card this allows the 'bobble' switch on the actual XP95 detector not to press in, when the detector is inserted in the base. So, in fact, the detector 'bobble' switches are left switched off. i.e switch turned 'off' for coding.

Unfortunately, the actual DIL switches, bought in by Apollo for use on mcps and interfaces, are pre-marked on and off by the manufacturer and this confuses people. If you are going to read what is written on the bought-in DIL switches, remember OFF is the address coding position!

Simples! (but only if you are a meerkat) 

[Wiz]

.......also the mains enters in the same opening, in twin and earth, checked behind the unswitched spur and yep, twin and earth.

Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....

Just put it down as a variation on your BS5839 Part 1 2002 + A2 2008 certificate, and let them try to prove you wrong.

Simples!

(I'll have to try to stop saying that - those damned meerkats have invaded my thought processes)

[Graeme]

Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....

oh happy days.  been there so many times i get bored of arguing with them now.

[Galeon]

Use a cable designed for the job not a cable designed to comply with a standard was what I was once told.

Just came back from a site we are commissioning, electrical contractor has decided not to use the knockouts but to make a large 50-60mm hole in the back, now no room for the batteries, also the mains enters in the same opening, in twin and earth, checked behind the unswitched spur and yep, twin and earth.

Email has been sent, now just waiting for the arguments to start as to why its non compliant.....

Would have loved to see him do this with mineral cable .