IS 3218:2009

[Allen Higginson]

Just going through the new "Irish 5839" and there are a couple of interesting differences in it.

One I thought a bit awkward for detector located beacons is the following :-

"The recommend mounting heights for visual alarm devices is 2100 mm above finished floor level and no closer
than 150 mm to the ceiling."

Unless I'm reading this wrong,then this excludes the use of of sounder beacon bases (such as Apollo which sit at 38mm) or even the GENT S-Quad (which,including the base,sits just below 64mm).

And in the case of an open circuit on an addressable loop :-

"If devices such as detectors, call points or sounders are connected to control equipment by a ring circuit, then,
provided that the devices can receive or send signals in either direction, they will continue to operate even with a
single open circuit or high series resistance in the ring. Such faults shall be indicated at the control and indicating
equipment within 60 min of their occurrence."

[Galeon]

"The recommend mounting heights for visual alarm devices is 2100 mm above finished floor level and no closer
than 150 mm to the ceiling."

Buzz unless a typo you boys will be using masses of skeleton /extension besa boxes, and the 60 mins , I know it takes time for the Guinness to settle when I go and visit the folks , so maybe I can 3 or 4 while I'm waiting for you to check out the loop fault.

[Wiz]

Just going through the new "Irish 5839" and there are a couple of interesting differences in it.

One I thought a bit awkward for detector located beacons is the following :-

"The recommend mounting heights for visual alarm devices is 2100 mm above finished floor level and no closer
than 150 mm to the ceiling."

Unless I'm reading this wrong,then this excludes the use of of sounder beacon bases (such as Apollo which sit at 38mm) or even the GENT S-Quad (which,including the base,sits just below 64mm).

Yes, a pedantic 'codehugger' would have a 'field day' with this sort of thing! I believe the old BS5839 had something similar, but the 2008 update, taking into account detector platform beacon states ...minimum of 2.1m

Just going through the new "Irish 5839" and there are a couple of interesting differences in it.

And in the case of an open circuit on an addressable loop :-

"If devices such as detectors, call points or sounders are connected to control equipment by a ring circuit, then,
provided that the devices can receive or send signals in either direction, they will continue to operate even with a
single open circuit or high series resistance in the ring. Such faults shall be indicated at the control and indicating
equipment within 60 min of their occurrence."

Because the system is still working fully, then the time taken to indicate a fault is not critical.

BSs' also have a number of recommended response times that seem to have been 'plucked out of the air'. However I've always assumed that those writing the standards have good reasons for choosing the response times that they have.

[Allen Higginson]

"The recommend mounting heights for visual alarm devices is 2100 mm above finished floor level and no closer
than 150 mm to the ceiling."

Buzz unless a typo you boys will be using masses of skeleton /extension besa boxes, and the 60 mins , I know it takes time for the Guinness to settle when I go and visit the folks , so maybe I can 3 or 4 while I'm waiting for you to check out the loop fault.

This was from the actual released document which came into force on 8th of May 2009.
You could use a short piece of conduit down from the ceiling to the 150mm mark but then if it's on a heat detector it'll put the sensing element beyond 150mm!!!!

[Big_Fella]

I take it since this has come into effect following on from the BS5839 release, that someone has carried out extensive surveys to dertermine that the beacon should be mounted at this height and not within a detector base simply screwed to a ceiling??

[Big_Fella]

Whats the view from manufacturers on this....?

[Allen Higginson]

I take it since this has come into effect following on from the BS5839 release, that someone has carried out extensive surveys to dertermine that the beacon should be mounted at this height and not within a detector base simply screwed to a ceiling??

Well,I personally think beacons at ceiling height are a waste of time and serve only to comply to DDA regs. etc.
However,one of the people involved in it's conception is an Apollo man!!

[Big_Fella]

Personally, I feel it's all about line of sight to the beacon.  I would assume the beacon in the centre of the room for example would have a better viewing potential than on a wall.  But, saying this, take for example a disabled toilet.  Lower level beacon would be far better than something above your head.... Generally when on the loo you'll be reading a magazine 

But again it's all about viewing angles, and ina  corridor, it wouldnt matter weather it be in a detector or on the wall, providing your facing it, you'll see it, if not you'll see the next beacon in the next area ans you progress through a building. 

[Wiz]

Surely, the IS recommendation is only aimed at wall-mounted beacons?

The reason why it is recommended that a beacon is installed some distance away from the ceiling (when wall mounted) is that the light from it will reflect better across the ceiling (especially since most ceilings are light-coloured). A wall mounted beacon mounted tightly against the ceiling does not 'throw out' as much light.

A ceiling mounted beacon normally does its job equally as well, especially where the ceilings are high or where the viewer is liable to be lying down.

I'm sure this IS recommendation was meant for wall-mounted beacons only, and will be amended, in time, to confirm it excludes devices designed to be ceiling mounted.

[Allen Higginson]

Just glad I have to contend with 5839!