Author Topic: No fire alarm - large department store  (Read 5805 times)

Offline AnthonyB

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No fire alarm - large department store
« on: July 17, 2009, 01:56:07 PM »
I was going through a large department store from the early 60's (not for work for once!) of several large floors including a MSCP and although I've been in it over the years something finally struck me:

It had a sprinkler system throughout with water motor gongs to the street, but no fire alarm system.

I was as nosy as I could be peeking into as many staff areas as I could, but could see no MCP's, detectors (with the age of store & sprinkles this didn't surprise me) or sounders.

The fire action notices for staff implied that the alarm is raised via internal telephone switchboard and PA used to alarm.

It obviously satisfied the fire brigade for the purposes of the OSRP & thus the FPA afterwards (it hasn't changed internally in any significant way for 40 years), but wonder if it would realistically meet the fire safety order.

I'd be considering a Cat M system if nothing else, but wondered if this is a unique situation or if others have come across it

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Offline Phoenix

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Re: No fire alarm - large department store
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2009, 09:52:43 PM »
wonder if it would realistically meet the fire safety order.

This is extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely unlikely to satisfy the requirements of the fire safety order.

But it might if they have some superheroic facilities at the disposal (i.e. Superman lives on site).

Stu


Offline Tom Sutton

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Re: No fire alarm - large department store
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 09:57:21 PM »
It sounds like a silent alarm which was common in the 60's in buildings of public assembly, Theatres, Cinemas and occasionally large Departmental Stores. If a fire was discovered by the staff they informed the manager or the store PBX and they initiated the silent alarm which informed all the staff in the building of a possible fire in the building. A common method was the fire record, quite often "Colonel Bogy". One store I was aware of was Bins formally known as Henderson’s which had clocks visible throughout the store with a light above each number. It was used as a paging system and when all the lights were illuminated this indicated a fire alarm which required all the staff to follow a set procedure. If after a set period of time the manager or the telephone operator did not receive a call cancelling the alert then the fire alarm went into the full general alarm, in stores this was by operating the sounders usually automatically.

As for not seeing any AutoFA this was the norm except in hotels because MoE was always achieved by passive methods and active methods was only used when it was impossible to achieve a satisfactory MoE using passive methods. With a full sprinkler system then installing AutoFA would have been very unlikely

As for not seeing any MCP’s the fire alarm would be controlled at the store PBX.

As for the sounders, I cannot explain, other than to suggest they where hidden or they had adopted the system used in Theatres and Cinemas which would have been unusual.
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.