Author Topic: Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks  (Read 7139 times)

Offline hammer1

  • New Member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 157
Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks
« on: August 14, 2009, 03:17:50 PM »
There a quite a few residential blocks of flats which have bell sounders in the common staircase/corridors. These bell sounders activate once MCP or smoke detector is activated in common areas.

Obviously with the individual flat front door and the bed room door being shut (2 of the most likely doors to be shut in a flat), it is highly unlikely that the recommended 75dB(A) will be achieved at bed head rest in line with BS5839-1. Where flats are leasehold/freehold the Landlords responsibility are limited due to fact resident will refuse works to be completed to install sounder in flat to achieve recommended sound levels.

Would you advise where possible to install sounders in flats to fall in line with BS5839-1??

Within each flat their is a self contained detector which will alert the occupier of a fire and evacuate, who will then activate the MCP on their way out, therefore raising the full alarm. If the SD in the common area is activated, then people could potentially be walking into a fire situation, this might be ok if you have more than 1 means of escape.

Going back to the sounder issue, would the fire officer be concerned or even check the audibility within the flats as they fall under domestic use and would be outside the FSO, therefore less of a requirement for Landlord to install the sounders.

Your thoughts please

Offline Paul2886

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2009, 05:32:55 PM »
If you do a search you'll find that this subject has been debated extensively in this forum. You'll find that detection in common areas and to extending heat detection into flats, where it already exists in common areas, is not the preferred option. However, it all depends on other features such as how the flats and M of E are protected. Have a search and have a read, its all there

Offline Allen Higginson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1131
Re: Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2009, 09:12:16 PM »
Is it sheltered accomodation or nursing home type assisted care?
Otherwise,common areas fire alarm for escape protection with mains/batt smokes in the flats (under Part 6 and not Part 1)

Offline hammer1

  • New Member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 157
Re: Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2009, 10:22:29 PM »
Thanks for the responses. Will do a search.

I have not so much the detection but the audibility issue (Grade A in general fall in line with BS5839-1). Anyone could give any light on clause 13 of BS5839-6 will be most welcomed.

Thanks

Offline Allen Higginson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1131
Re: Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2009, 12:52:37 AM »
Thanks for the responses. Will do a search.

I have not so much the detection but the audibility issue (Grade A in general fall in line with BS5839-1). Anyone could give any light on clause 13 of BS5839-6 will be most welcomed.

Thanks
Yup,grade A does indeed relate to systems that are LD2 in relation to detector locations as per Part 1,but for communal areas of HMO's,3 or more storey houses with floor area greater than 200m2 and some NHS supported dwellings.Blocks of flats in the traditional sense don't come under this.

Offline hammer1

  • New Member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 157
Re: Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 01:38:25 PM »
Sorry for bringing this subject up again and I have looked through past posts. But I seem to not get my big thick head around the audibility issue.

At a Edwardian property which is 5 storey and converted into flats on upper floors and commercial retail unit on ground floor, we recently had a fire alarm company install what seems to me a Grade C (smoke/sounder combination detectors in common landings/fire escape routes and a small dedicated fire panel with repeater in rear store area in commercial unit, the only extra is that MCP's were installed as well) LD2 system.

Now the doors to the flats are of good solid timber construction, the partition is brick work or plasterboard with plaster skimmed finish. I am not aware of the audibility of such sounder/smoke detectors and if they would be high enough to warn residents of a fire detector/MCP being activated. The evacuation procedure is 'In event of hearing an alarm evacuate' kind of hard if they may not hear it in the first place.

Now LACORS  recommend a Grade A LD2 system, which is more clear in what audibility is required. Each flat has Grade F detection, but what is the point of activating the MCP on leaving the building if no one can hear it???

We have also some similar properties that only have a local sounder at the panel, which is located by the main entrance Hallway to such properties and would most deffo would not warn anyone of fire.

What is the point of having AFD systems that does not warn the occupants, especially sleeping accommodation ??

Surely the fire alarm company's should be guiding their clients to the correct installation or are they cowboys working on the cheap.

Any comments are welcomed.

Thanks

Davo

  • Guest
Re: Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 01:55:10 PM »
hammer1

What paperwork did they leave?
Conformity Cert?
Noise levels Cert?- even if they technically aren't allowed into private areas I would expect them to have been admitted by some of the resis to get a bedhead reading

If not you can do a rough calc from the common area 1metre readings- there is a previous post explaining this- presumably 115dB sounders?



davo

Offline AM

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
Re: Fire alarm sounders in residential blocks
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2009, 10:06:00 AM »
Is anyone familar with the Isle Of Man's Fire Precautions (Flats) Regulations? In that, on top of the requirements for Building Regs (which has an additional B6 and B7 giving requirements for smoke alarms and sprinklers (applicants have to justify why they shouldn't be provided)), fire alarms/detectors/call points are required in common areas, and a heat detector creating a common alarm throughout the building should be provided in each kitchen.