7273-4....again

[David Rooney]

We are providing interfaces to "open" sliding doors in a church. The manufacturer tells me there is a pair of wires that when shorted will cause the doors to open (powered by an internal battery) therefore we can link a fire alarm relay to this pair, and wire a manual release (green breakglass) in parallel.

If we take power completely off the doors they will not slide open, simply be in a position to slide freely.

Is this acceptable in respect of the following clauses...


9.4 The design or configuration of electronically operated locks or striking plates should be such that power is not required in order to unlock any door. If fitted to fire-resisting doors, the lock, latch and locking plate should meet the requirements for BS EN 12209:2003,
Grade 1 in respect of fire resistance; hardware for the door should meet the requirements for BS EN 1527:1998, Grade 1 in respect of fire
resistance.

9.5 Powered sliding doors on means of escape should be installed in accordance with BS 7036-2. The configuration of the release
arrangements should be such that the doors open in the event of failure of the power supplies that operate the doors.

[nearlythere]

We are providing interfaces to "open" sliding doors in a church. The manufacturer tells me there is a pair of wires that when shorted will cause the doors to open (powered by an internal battery) therefore we can link a fire alarm relay to this pair, and wire a manual release (green breakglass) in parallel.

If we take power completely off the doors they will not slide open, simply be in a position to slide freely.

Is this acceptable in respect of the following clauses...


9.4 The design or configuration of electronically operated locks or striking plates should be such that power is not required in order to unlock any door. If fitted to fire-resisting doors, the lock, latch and locking plate should meet the requirements for BS EN 12209:2003,
Grade 1 in respect of fire resistance; hardware for the door should meet the requirements for BS EN 1527:1998, Grade 1 in respect of fire
resistance.

9.5 Powered sliding doors on means of escape should be installed in accordance with BS 7036-2. The configuration of the release
arrangements should be such that the doors open in the event of failure of the power supplies that operate the doors.

Not really. You are referring to the means of bypassing and failsafing a door lock. Guidance for PPA and much other guidance and legislation, requires that doors on means of escape should open in the direction of escape especially when large numbers of persons are involved. Sliding doors, of course, do not do this but then neither do they open in, which is a relevant consideration. It is considered preferable that sliding doors are able to crash outwards when pressure is applied from the inside, just as panic locked escape door does or more usually failsafe to open when fire alarm sounds, power failure, fire alarm fault etc etc.
Are there other conventional doors out of the area which may be adequate in size and number for escape without the need to use the main entrance?

[Wiz]

David, it seems that these sliding doors fail the BS7273-4 recommendations in many ways and not least of all by the lack of a fail-safe interconnection to the fire alarm system.

As nearlythere suggests, maybe these doors are not really meant to be part of the emergency evacuation route anyway.

[Allen Higginson]

Aaarrrggghh!!!!

[nearlythere]

Aaarrrggghh!!!!

Buzz. Was that you choking on your sausage roll in a bap or have you fallen off the toilet seat again?

[Wiz]

Aaarrrggghh!!!!

Buzz, it'll never go away. I love it!

[David Rooney]

Aaarrrggghh!!!!

Stubbed your toe .....??

The doors are being installed leading out from the back of the church so no other alternative route... two other sets of doors are being installed inside outer exit doors forming lobbies.

No AFD is installed, it's a completely manual system.

[Allen Higginson]

Aaarrrggghh!!!!

Stubbed your toe .....??

The doors are being installed leading out from the back of the church so no other alternative route... two other sets of doors are being installed inside outer exit doors forming lobbies.

No AFD is installed, it's a completely manual system.

Surely the "Moses Effect" should over ride any standard and,just like the Red Sea,the doors shall open through devine intervention???

[Graeme]

God only knows

[Wiz]

Who needs Moses? I suppose in a real emergency people could walk straight through it. God willing.

[GregC]

I may be wrong, sure Wiz will tell me if I am , but dont places of worship have a different or alternative set of rules, such as hospitals, cinemas etc etc

[Wiz]

I'm no expert (but who is, except C.T.?) but I believe it applies to all types of premises.

[colin todd]

Wiz, you do yourself a disservice. Your expertise on BS 7273-4 just grows and grows. Wizzyco are very lucky to have you. All you need now is to educate the other 98493483984938 people who have never heard of it, or as stated in a post here consider themselves able to ignore it.

[David Rooney]

Wiz, you do yourself a disservice. Your expertise on BS 7273-4 just grows and grows. Wizzyco are very lucky to have you. All you need now is to educate the other 98493483984938 people who have never heard of it, or as stated in a post here consider themselves able to ignore it.

Ok.. I have no idea what BS 7036-2 is all about so wouldn't know if the doors that are being installed comply or not.

a. With regard to my original question is it acceptable to simply "release" the locking mechanism without physically opening the doors?
b. Presumably it is not acceptable to be using this pair of wires that seem to be energised from an internal battery to release the latching mechanism?
c. When it comes to the 7273-4 certificate, am I certificating that the door complies with BS 7036-2 and anything and everything to do with doors I've never heard of or just that my "method of release" complies?

[kurnal]

Dave as it is a manual fire alarm system the interface to the fire alarm (and hence BS7273 part 4) is a much less sigificant benefit (though specified in general terms in BS7036).This needs a common sense approach but a number of other factors will come into play- the number and characteristics of the persons using the building,  what they are doing whilst there,how they are likely to behave in an emergency, managment and supervision, staffing levels, fire loading and potential rate of fire growth.

Sliding doors should be avoided on escape routes if possible unless they incorporate a  break out function, but in some cases management procedures can compensate so long as they are robust. Please feel free to call anytime for a chat about the issues from a fire risk assessment point of view. (may not be PC though)