Certification; a long time coming!

[Bobbins]

At last Warrington certification have launched the new fire risk assessors certification scheme; ‘FRACS’, with the key UKAS accreditation. 

FSE have it in their news letter www.fseonline.co.uk

Looks like it has been launched at a time when fire risk assessment is being put under the microscope, let's hope CLG will act quickly and insist on certification as the way forward for consultants.

[Phoenix]

Hi Bobbins,

Excuse my ignorance.  Please could you explain the advantages of this scheme over the IFE scheme, say.

Thanks

Stu

[kurnal]

+ It is the only one with UKAS accreditation
- It is much more expensive.

All these schemes cover the issue of individual competence wih varying degrees of succes and diligence.

The FIA feel that there is also a need for a certification scheme for companies offering fire risk assessment services. They are currently working on proposals for a scheme involving third party accreditation - similar for example to the BAFE scheme for the portable extinguisher field. The outcome- it is hoped - will be competent and ethical companies offering a high quality consistent service employing competent individuals, thus completing the circle.

[Tom W]

The Warrington scheme has actually been running a while but they only recently achieved UKAS accreditation.

The difference between this and the IFEs (apart from costs) is the written examination part. The pass rate for their first trial was VERY low. I think they may have eased up on the questions now.

[Midland Retty]

Are there mechanisms in place to ensure that an applicant doesn't simply submit ficticous fire risk assessments on non existant buildings, or where a genuine assessment has been done the assessor hasn't missed anything major?

[hammer1]

So this joins the IFSM, IFE, IFPO,RICS and any other money making scheme on fire risk assessors.

You say the difference is the UKAS accreditation, however it is only the body that is UKAS audited and not like the fire risk assessors are as it is in asbestos etc.

What about the people who have done 5 day fire risk assessor courses at the fire college and other places, does this mean they are no longer competent until forking out dosh for this or similar schemes??

What does this mean for SMEs?

Will they need to employ a consultant to this level for a small office building with 6 employees. What is the point of the Government Guidance documents for RP if they are no longer competent to conduct FRA. As it says if things become complex, then consult competent advice not get consultant in first.

Thought the whole point of the FSO is to lessen the burden of companies.

I can see all you lot seeing the pound notes.

Surely the fire authority assess if FRA are suitable and sufficient, therefore checking the competence of the person producing such a document.

I totally agree where medium/high risk environments are concerned and the level of competence needs to be at a certain level.

Will this process have different levels of acceptance, for example someone who only does small office businesses that may be low level, low occupancy might be more than competent in that field but not in a industrial chemical environment.


You most defo do not want a IOSH type situation on your hands, where even persons who have done Uni and have vast experience in a field may not be deemed competent because they did not do it the IOSH way (paying more money) and IOSH having a monopoly on H&S.

[Bobbins]

Pheonix;  The checkers are checked and 17024 = accountability traceability and independence


Kurnal; You pay for what you get and a competence scheme for a company sounds good but not sure who will write it for the FIA.


Piglet; They have tighten the scheme up from the pilot and I believe the pass rate is very similar to the IFE register.


Midland; Unlike the IFE the RP/Owners of the reports have to give permission and are contacted by WCL and none of the schemes check the actual buildings the report comes from it would cost too much to do.

Hammer; I heard a tale today about a fire risk assessor knocking on doors on an industrial estate offering to do risk assessments. Apparently even though  one company had lots of combustible liquids on site including toluene he could knock up a suitable and sufficient fire risk assessment in half a day. All schemes are optional at the moment and if a practicing assessor wants to use certification as a marketing tool then so be it, or they could try knocking door to door to drum up business.

I think it is a huge step in the right direction; it isn’t perfect but it has to be better than what we have had in the past. The UKAS accreditation has to add value and any move towards a repeatable national model can only be good for the RPs.