Why doesn't the fire service put out fires?

[nearlythere]

Perhaps the days of 'practical firemanship' are drawing to a close as the old school numbers are leaving and the skills from back in the day are not passed on.

 

Remember BM. Two pies and chips Prescott modernised the UK Fire Brigades with the overwhelming support of the electorate.
"qu'ils mangent de la brioche"

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

How can we forget?

My comment refers more to the numbers that are retiring after their service ..... and the lack of ability for 'traditional'fire fighter skills to be passed on.

[Clevelandfire 3]

I think thats very true the old skill set is being lost to kids who dont know much about fire behaviour, building construction or firemanship. They are great at putting up smoke detectors though.

[nearlythere]

They are great at putting up smoke detectors though.

Thats what is saving lives C3.

[Mike Buckley]

They are great at putting up smoke detectors though.

Thats what is saving lives C3.

Civilians yes, firefighters no?

SOPs are not a new thing, they were about in my day (OK the stone tablets were a bit heavy), but the problem is incidents are not generic, each one has its own traps. The SOP has to be interpreted and modified according to the incident, that is the skill of command and control.

The more specific SOPs become, the more numerous they become until there are so many it is impossible. Until you reach the stage where the OiC is trying to remember which SOP to use. The situation will not be helped by different officers having different ideas and writing different  SOPs for essentially the same incident.
The old adage "Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" comes to mind.

[nearlythere]

Absolutely NT. Sad state of affairs really. Maybe things will change after our new government is voted in 

Doubt it MR. There are more important things for any new Government to do first like award themselves an inflation busting pay rise and invent new expenses scams.

It has begun.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/northern_ireland_politics/8380998.stm

[fireftrm]

the old skill set is being lost to kids who dont know much about fire behaviour, building construction or firemanship

If so this is a failure of the FRS they work for. These areas are explicity required for completion of the NOS so any service that has competent Firefighters should have ensured this skill and knowledge. I would, however, agree that too many are not doing their job, but this is not the fault of the Firefighter's youth or putting up detectors (which is explicity NOT in a firefighter's role)

[Clevelandfire 3]

Point taken. Ive nothing against CFS it definately has its pace but the NOS as i understand them has dumbed down alot of training that the old hands used to get. Not the youth firefighters fault though I agree.

[Billy]

Not read all of this thread but i believe that too much emphasis is being put on filling in portfolios and the like and not actually knowing the practical aspects of the job. We also need to look at the fallout from the strike and where we are as a result of this. Some Firey's who joined during and just after the industrial action never had the same training from the experienced fireys and Officers that I had received more than 20 years previous. This was because moral was low and people felt extremely undervalued.
So we are now some 6 years after the strike and some of the Officers nowadays who have joined post strike, are making decisions with less practical knowledge than we had the benefit of in my era. This is compounded by the fact that when good experienced firey's start to switch off and not keep their practical skills up to date, they cannot just turn it back on in an emergency situation.  The current OIC's now have to be even more reliant on their own practical skills when the chips are down than I had to as I knew my crews had a wealth of experience. Most Services have mad keen junior ranks that need guided and supported and if they are not given input on key practical skills, how are they meant to know them?

PS. I was always taught that SOP's were designed for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools- how right this has become.

These are my own personal opinion and not necessarily the views of my Service.

[kurnal]

Hey welcome back Billy good to know you are still around bangin the drum

[Mike Buckley]

The other problem with experience is that the bulge of men taken on when the 48 hour week was reduced to 42 hr have now reached retirement so all that experience has gone as well.