Loop powered door retainer

[Galeon]

I am in possession of a demo unit , which will sit on a loop ,you can have up to 20 of these , and I am putting it through its paces at the momnent .
Anyone care to give some feed back on this bit of kit.

[Allen Higginson]

I am in possession of a demo unit , which will sit on a loop ,you can have up to 20 of these , and I am putting it through its paces at the momnent .
Anyone care to give some feed back on this bit of kit.

Who makes it?

[nearlythere]

I am in possession of a demo unit , which will sit on a loop ,you can have up to 20 of these , and I am putting it through its paces at the momnent .
Anyone care to give some feed back on this bit of kit.

Would love to give a full and comprehensive run down on sitting on loops if I knew what you were talking about. Is it a contraption to aleviate the pain, allegedly experienced by woman, during and after childbirth?
Until then I will live in blissful knowledge that you have strayed into the wrong forum with this lot.
I am thinking of starting a gobbiltygook section of the forum especially for you techno and maternal types.

[Tom Sutton]

I am with you on this one NT.

[Graeme]

I am with you on this one NT.

can be wired directly into the wiring(loop) of an analogue addressable fire alarm system

[Allen Higginson]

Could it be something like this???
http://www.kendrion-electromagnetic.com/medias/sys_master/8451684651778080.pdf?mime=application/pdf&realname=Kendrion_HahnCQ_Loop.pdf

Looks like one of our panels in the background!

[Galeon]

Even though we are in the tech section , will keep it simple , the unit is compatible with a major standard open protocol that is readily avaliable on the market . Cant give you the manufacturer at the moment. The unit takes up one address on the loop . and you can have 20 units directly on a single loop.
The magnet does not require separate batteries to actual change the state of the magnet but uses electronics inside the unit that operates should the panel tell the loop to operate the device under fire condition or indeed fault.

[Wiz]

Galeon, a couple of questions;

Apart from a specific 'fault' signal transmitted from the control panel what other fault conditions will cause the magnet to automatically release the door?

If you can operate 20 from a single loop would that be a 250mA loop or a 500mA loop?

If you can operate 20 on a loop, how much other equipment can you have on the loop? i.e. is that 20 retainers and nothing else or 20 retainers and only a few other devices?

[Galeon]

1. Total loss of the loop
2. Programming actions will be avaliable , ie fault on the main panel
3 .Depends on your panel , but we are not taking power from the loop to energise the magnet
4 .The device will be assigned as a specific device(TBA) so you can do your loop loading

[Graeme]

sounds good. there is definately a market for it.

[Wiz]

Galeon, the phrase 'not taking power from the the loop to energise the magnet' leads me to surmise it must use the now popular method of two magnets north on to south, one of which is then physically twisted to create a 'same pole to same pole' effect to cause the release action.

But power is needed from somewhere to twist the magnet, And if this doesn't come from the loop, where does it come from?  Also if this power is not 'stored' in some way then surely it wouldn't be available on a loop disconnection fault. If it is 'stored' how reliable is this storage?
The 'twisting' action possibly uses a motor. Does the motor ever interfere with the data communication?

Obviously, the unit takes power from the loop (if not to keep the magnet energised) at some point. Also further power must be taken to operate the addressable communitcation part of the device. If it really took no power, or even very little power, the maximum number on a loop wouldn't be restricted to 20!

For 'total' fault monitoring the unit would also automatically release on 'loss of data' on the loop. Does it do this?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not being critical of something I know nothing about. I like the sound of it. It could be very useful. I'm just trying to find out the probablity of being able to use these devices in a practical manner taking into account BS7273 etc..

[Allen Higginson]

Could it be something like this (click on link)??

http://www.kendrion-electromagnetic.com/medias/sys_master/8451684651778080.pdf?mime=application/pdf&realname=Kendrion_HahnCQ_Loop.pdf

It uses the loop as it's power for the magnet.

Looks like one of our panels in the background!


Ammended so link works!!!!

[Galeon]

Cant seem to get this link open Buzz ,

[Galeon]

Galeon, the phrase 'not taking power from the the loop to energise the magnet' leads me to surmise it must use the now popular method of two magnets north on to south, one of which is then physically twisted to create a 'same pole to same pole' effect to cause the release action.
You would be correct in that assumption

But power is needed from somewhere to twist the magnet, And if this doesn't come from the loop, where does it come from?  Also if this power is not 'stored' in some way then surely it wouldn't be available on a loop disconnection fault. If it is 'stored' how reliable is this storage?
That's where the unit is clever and its ability to retain the required current
The 'twisting' action possibly uses a motor. Does the motor ever interfere with the data communication?
20 of them on a heavily populated loop for the last 3 months , no reported incidents so far .

Obviously, the unit takes power from the loop (if not to keep the magnet energised) at some point. Also further power must be taken to operate the addressable communitcation part of the device. If it really took no power, or even very little power, the maximum number on a loop wouldn't be restricted to 20!
Fair comment , but turning water into wine is another story .

For 'total' fault monitoring the unit would also automatically release on 'loss of data' on the loop. Does it do this?
Yep , as required in your favorite BS document

Don't get me wrong. I'm not being critical of something I know nothing about. I like the sound of it. It could be very useful. I'm just trying to find out the probablity of being able to use these devices in a practical manner taking into account BS7273 etc..
Value your input , no worries

[Allen Higginson]

Cant seem to get this link open Buzz ,

Hmmm,it's in PDF but I'll post the jpeg image -