Height of wet risers

[wee brian]

And how exactly do they up the pressure? Ah, simple... Fit new pumps to all fire service pump vehicles, then throw the old hoses away and purchase new ones that can handle the increase in pressure. All at the taxpayers expense and the council tax payers expense.

Or do they put the cost in the hands of the people who want to build these tall buildings in the first place? The very same people who will be making the profit from the building.

OOoOoh bad people making money - shame on them - oh actually they are tax payers...

Seriousely. The problem would be the several thousand existing buildings. And you get 10 bar by turning a knob on the pump control (so I am told)

[Tom Sutton]

Seriously. The problem would be the several thousand existing buildings. And you get 10 bar by turning a knob on the pump control (so I am told)

Sorry wee brian I misunderstood your reply #11 but if you are saying that all existing buildings need to upgrade then doesn’t the FRS circ 17/2006 answer that and it will only apply to new build.

3.6 BS 9990, which is not retrospective , was published in May 2006 and is referenced in the guidance supporting the Fire Safety Order. It is also scheduled to be referenced in the revised guidance supporting the Building Regulations in Approved Document B (ADB).

[CivvyFSO]

Look, the last thing you want it to live 59m above ground, have a fire in your building, and have someone like Retty turn up at your door, in the middle of the night, holding a limp hose, with just a little dribble coming out of the end.

I think I shall walk away calmly now before Mr Houston arrives.

[Midland Retty]

A study was undertaken (I forget when) by HMG about upgrading fire appliances to carry larger capacity pumps. The study found an upgrade would be unpractical due to the size / weight and power requirements to run larger pumps.
 
The gas cooling techniques (which are used to control / prevent the symptoms of backdraught and flashovers occurring) also mean less water is used to supress a fire, meaning less water damage following a fire.

Finallycan we please not talk about my limp hose problems publically on the forums Civvy

[Tom Sutton]

Extract fron BS 9990 : 2006

4.2 Provision and siting

4.2.1 General

Where fire mains are installed and there are no floors higher than 50 m above fire service access level, wet or dry fire mains may be installed. Where there are floors higher than 50 m above fire service access level, wet fire mains should be installed owing to the pressures required to provide adequate fire-fighting water supplies at the landing valves at upper floors and also to ensure that water is immediately available at all floor levels.

NOTE 1 This height is based upon using 51 mm hose and afire-fighting branch having hydraulic characteristics of K-value = 230.

NOTE 2 Guidance on when afire main should be installed is given in BS 5588-5.

[jokar]

I know it is an extract but BS 5588 is now defunct you should use BS 9999.

[CivvyFSO]

Says who?

BS5588 is cited in ADB. Since compliance with ADB assumes compliance with the building regs, then BS5588 should be the primary choice as by following that you can prove to a BCO that you have complied. Designing to BS9999 assumes no such compliance.

[jokar]

I will reiterate then, BS 9999 succeeded the BS 5588 series which has been withdrawn from use.  All relevant technical information is now in BS 9999. ie Part 5 was cut and pasted into 9999.  There are many documents out in the big bad world that cite older standards as they await revision.  As far as ADB is concerned that wait could be until 2013.

[wee brian]

9990 is already refered to in ADB - Para 15.6

9999 isnt but thats not relevant to this thread - is it?

[CivvyFSO]

I will reiterate then

No. You will 'iterate' as it is the first time you have repeated it. If you have to repeat it again, only THEN it will be a reiteration.

Signed: PedantFSO

The main point I am making is related to a comment on planningportal:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/government/buildingregs/technicalguidance/bcfiresafetypartb/bcfaqs2/

Snippet for people who can't be bothered:

Volume 2 of Approved Document B currently refers to the guidance in several of the BS 5588 series of standards as a means of showing compliance with the requirements of Part B (Fire safety) of Schedule 1 to the Building Regulations. Until such time as the Approved Document is amended, these references remain part of the guidance approved under section 6 of the 1984 Building Act. As such, compliance with the guidance referred to would confer a legal presumption of conformity with the relevant requirements of Part B. Following any other guidance would not confer that legal presumption.

[jokar]

And, I agree.  However, BS 5588 is no longer available for use as it has been superseeded.

[jokar]

Pleases note all speeling errors.

[CivvyFSO]

And, I agree.  However, BS 5588 is no longer available for use as it has been superseeded.

It is available for use:

Withdrawn BS standards are readily available from:

The BSI Knowledge Centre
British Standards Institution
389 Chiswick High Road
London, W4 4AL
Email: knowledgecentre@bsigroup.com
Tel: +44 (0)20 8996 7004

[Davo]

Civvy

Thought one bit was still active, can't remember which though


davo

[kurnal]

Part 1 Davo.