Author Topic: service cupboards  (Read 10502 times)

Offline ps

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service cupboards
« on: November 18, 2009, 09:10:33 AM »
Does anyone know why in some buildings, there is fire board and other stopping around the pipes and wires that go through the ceilings and floors in these cupboard, and in others there is not?

If there is a fire door to each cupboard on each floor, is that enough or should there be fire stopping at each level for the pipes/wires etc as well? Some fire risk assessments point out the lack of it as an issue, others ignore it? Also is there a min rated fire door that should be on these cupboards? Cheers in advance if anyone can shed some light

PS


Offline nearlythere

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Re: service cupboards
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 09:20:48 AM »
Does anyone know why in some buildings, there is fire board and other stopping around the pipes and wires that go through the ceilings and floors in these cupboard, and in others there is not?

If there is a fire door to each cupboard on each floor, is that enough or should there be fire stopping at each level for the pipes/wires etc as well? Some fire risk assessments point out the lack of it as an issue, others ignore it? Also is there a min rated fire door that should be on these cupboards? Cheers in advance if anyone can shed some light

PS

If the cupboard contains a risk eg main electrical intake and distribution equipment, especially when in a protected escape route, the cupboard would normally be properly enclosed to fire resisting standard. This would involve fire sealing around trunking and cabling where these transfer through the walls and ceilings. It may be that this has not been done in some instances because it has been missed.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline ps

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Re: service cupboards
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 09:46:07 AM »
Ah that sounds about right - so the assessor who's suggested that the fire stopping is completed top and bottom is right and the other guy is a potential muppet from the sound of it!

Many thanks Nearlythere

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: service cupboards
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 07:21:22 PM »
If it is a service riser through a buliding it doesn't need stopping at every level as long as it is enclosed in fire resisting construction and that at each access point a fire door that is kept locked shut is fitted. If the shaft doesn't meet this spec then it needs stopping

That's what the guidance says.
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Offline kurnal

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Re: service cupboards
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 08:33:18 PM »
Yes I agree with Anthony. If these cupboards and ducts  are completely within the staircase shaft then it makes no difference if they are fire stopped at every ceiling level- after all the staircase isnt! ;)

So in these cases its top and bottom and every exit point.

On the other hand its very important that they be stopped whereever cables or pipes leave the shaft eg to dissapear into flats or ceiling voids.  And if they dodge in and out of the staircase enclosure ( happens sometimes on converted buildings where the fire resisting screens are in different positions at each floor level)  then will need fire stopping.

Now if its just an electrical intake and distribution board  or a gas meter my take is that it does not necessarily need to be enclosed in fire resisting materials.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 08:37:53 PM by kurnal »

Offline Phoenix

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Re: service cupboards
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 04:29:15 PM »
The original post makes no mention of whether these are in a staircase or in the accommodation. 

In a staircase

I think kurnal et al have wrapped it up pretty well.  I agree about the gas meter and electrical intake but I would add that an assessment is necessary for the electrical installation.  A small consumer unit probably doesn't warrant protection but you often see old distribution boards that don't immediately fill you with a sense of trust.  These, I would have enclosed.

On the matter of enclosure, note that the cupbpoards created have to be fire resisting from the inside out, not necessarily the other way round.  That is, the important thing is to have them completely internally lined and sealed with fire resisting materials.  A timber framework with f.r. on the outside is a waste of time.

Having done all that, do you put a detector in the new cupboard?  You would if it was a single staircase building and you may for other reasons, that's another issue.

In the accommodation

If the riser cupboard is not in the staircase but in the accommodation then, for some buildings, the minimum required protection to them is nothing at all.  If the riser passes from floor to floor in an office building, for example, there is no requirement for compartmentation between floors and, therefore, there is no requirement for risers between floors to be fire resisting.  Having said that, it would not be terribly good for property protection or business continuity to allow fire to spread vertically freely within a building and so enclosure is a good idea.

Most buildings other than offices will have compartmentation between floors (and, indeed, most offices have it also (but they don't have to)) and will need the f.r. enclosure around the duct.

The duct does not need enclosure at all if the duct is fire stopped at each compartment floor that it passes through.  The problem with this, though, is that the fire stopping often becomes breached over the years by contractors fitting new services and these breaches are easy to ignore and forget about (hidden as they are in cupboards).  It is better to have the enclosure round the entire shaft and accept that there may be holes between floors within it.

There have been cases in the past, one being the cause of a large fire in my neck of the woods, where the duct is nicely enclosed at every level but then not continued through the loft space to the roof or not properly capped.  Watch out for that or you might have a nice roof fire to explain away.

On the whole, my answer would be that they usually need f.r. enclosures but not always.  A good fire safety answer.  Yes and no.

Stu



 

Offline Mr. P

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Re: service cupboards
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2009, 09:35:12 AM »
You can always recommend/specify detection...

Offline ps

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Re: service cupboards
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2009, 07:17:58 AM »
Apologies - I've not been around for a while to say thanks you!  So thank you for all the replies, yes and no is a great answer - very little is ever black and white!