Author Topic: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment  (Read 12113 times)

Offline kurnal

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Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« on: January 05, 2010, 05:11:32 PM »
Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment- some interesting elements.

Good exercise carried out on costings, though some of the prices quoted for fire alarm systems seem very high to me. Theres  another new angle on the level of fire detection provided- big houses can have stand alone none interlinked smoke alarms so long as the dutyholder aspires to have them interconnected one day,   guidance seens to be at variance from BS5839 part 6, locks and fire exit doors raise their head again  etc etc.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/11/26164339/0

Offline colin todd

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 01:26:30 AM »
and because scots people have always been equal and diverse, there is no age limit for respondents, so get your comments in quick al.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline val

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 09:43:17 PM »
Nice to see Scotland has taken two years to copy 'Do you have paying guests', but without the nice graphics. The costings exercise is truely remarkable. ???

Offline colin todd

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 12:08:43 AM »
Valerie, I think you wll find they did not copy it as there are very significant differences. So it is not really the far sighted copying the blind and slighty half witted after all.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Ricardo

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 02:35:56 PM »
"big houses can have stand alone none interlinked smoke alarms so long as the dutyholder aspires to have them interconnected one day"

Thats what I thought when I looked at the draft over and over, but now I see a bit that says

Alarms should be interlinked so that actuation of one causes actuation of others.

I also see terms used such as proprietor/persons/owner/operator/anyone who has control, should we not just be trying to stick with the terminology we have all been trying to get used to over the last 3,1/2 years the "dutyholder"?

also I see that the proprietor/persons/owner/operator/anyone who has control is being asked to consider installing mains powered smoke alarms permanently wired to a circuit when the lifetime of the 10 year battery is ended or when repair or redecoration work is being carried out

Will this really happen? will some want to bother wiring back to the mains after such a long period of time, I wonder if there is really that much cost difference between repalcing all the 10 year interlinked battery detectors and providing one year battery back up mains powered detectors.

Offline kurnal

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 02:57:04 PM »
"big houses can have stand alone none interlinked smoke alarms so long as the dutyholder aspires to have them interconnected one day"

Thats what I thought when I looked at the draft over and over, but now I see a bit that says

Alarms should be interlinked so that actuation of one causes actuation of others.

also I see that the proprietor/persons/owner/operator/anyone who has control is being asked to consider installing mains powered smoke alarms permanently wired to a circuit when the lifetime of the 10 year battery is ended or when repair or redecoration work is being carried out

Will this really happen? will some want to bother wiring back to the mains after such a long period of time, I wonder if there is really that much cost difference between repalcing all the 10 year interlinked battery detectors and providing one year battery back up mains powered detectors.


Thanks for putting me right on that Ricardo. But I agree with you over the upgrade on redecorating . If they redecorate within the first five years many dutyholders will think replacing new detectors is a waste of money. if they get away with it for 10 years then they will say that the likelihood of a fire is so remote it does not need doing.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 03:05:59 PM »
also I see that the proprietor/persons/owner/operator/anyone who has control is being asked to consider installing mains powered smoke alarms permanently wired to a circuit when the lifetime of the 10 year battery is ended or when repair or redecoration work is being carried out
Makes me wonder if it is good enough for 10 years what's wrong with another 10?
Why would painting the ceiling suddenly make a battery system unsuitable?
Who writes this stuff?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 01:06:41 AM »
Who writes this stuff?

Apparently, these people:

Local Government

Convenors of joint fire and rescue boards

Chief Officers of the fire and rescue services

Chief Fire Officers Association (CFOA)

Chief Executives of local authorities

Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (CoSLA)

Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Manager (SOLACE)

Association of Chief Police Officers (Scotland) (ACPOS)

Scottish Parliament
Justice 2 Committee

Scottish Labour Party

Scottish Liberal Democrats

Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party

Scottish Nationalist Party

Scottish Socialist Party

Scottish Green Party

Scottish Senior Citizens' Unity Party

Dennis Canavan, MSP

Ms Jean Turner, MSP

Ms Margo MacDonald, MSP

Scottish Youth Parliament

Scottish Parliament's Information Centre

European Parliament
Scottish MEPs

Other Government Departments/Organisations
Scottish Fire Services College

Fire Service College (Moreton-in-Marsh)

Health and Safety Executive

Ministry of Defence

Scottish Environment Protection Agency

Chief Executive, Scottish Prison Service

Scotland Office

National Assembly for Wales

Northern Ireland Executive

Office of the Deputy Prime Minister

Historic Scotland

Health Protection Scotland

Scottish Commission for the Regulation of Care

Office of the Charity Regulator

Department of Health, Social Security and Public Safety

Scottish Building Standards Agency

Building Standards Advisory Committee

Scottish Enterprise

Highlands and Islands Enterprise

Trade Unions/Staff Associations
Fire Brigades Union (FBU)

Scottish Trades Union Congress (STUC)

Retained Firefighters Union (RFU)

Fire Officers' Association

Association of Principal Fire Officers

UNISON

GMB Scotland

Transport and General Workers' Union

Professional Bodies/Trade Associations
Institution of Fire Engineers

Association of British Insurers

Emergency Planning Society

Forestry and Timber Association

Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) in Scotland Building Control Forum

Scottish Association of Building Standards Managers

The British Hospitality Association

Scottish Personal Assistant Employers Network

Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland

Society of Chief Officers of Trading Standards in Scotland

Cold Storage and Distribution Federation

Equality and Diversity Groups
Positive Action in Housing

Commission for Racial Equality

Equal Opportunities Commission

Scottish Human Rights Centre

African and Caribbean Network

West of Scotland Racial Equality Council

Grampian Racial Equality Council

Tayside Racial Equality Council

Central Scotland Racial Equality Council

Edinburgh and Lothians Racial Equality Council

Scottish Gypsy/Traveller Association

Scottish Refugee Council

Black Community Development Project

BEMIS

Inclusion Scotland

Scottish Disability Equality Forum

Disability Rights Commission

Enable

SENSE Scotland

Capability Scotland

Royal National Institute for the Blind (RNIB)

Royal National Institute for Deaf People (RNID)

Scottish Association for Mental Health

Scottish Council on Deafness

Glasgow Women's Library

Engender

Equality Network

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) Youth

Age Concern Scotland

Help the Aged

OUTRIGHT Scotland

Scottish Consortium for Learning Disability

National Autistic Society Scotland

The Scottish Society for Autism

Deafblind Scotland

Deaf Action

British Deaf Association Scotland

EMPOWER

Black Environment Network

Scottish Council for Minorities Rights

Religious Groups
Action of Churches Together in Scotland

Scottish Interfaith Council

Scottish Catholic Education Service

Church of Scotland Education Department

Evangelical Alliance (Scotland)

Free Church of Scotland

Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland

International Society for Krishna Consciousness (Scotland)

Methodist Church

Scottish Churches Parliamentary Officer

Scottish Council of Jewish Communities

UK Islamic Mission

Radio Ramzan

Glasgow Central Mosque

Care Sector
Woodlands Education Trust

North West Elderly Day Care Center

Scottish Institute for Residential Child Care

Relatives and Residents Association

Alzheimer Scotland

Key Housing Association

Community Care Providers Scotland

CrossReach

Aberlour Child Care Trust

Barnardos

Scottish Care

Abbeyfield Society for Scotland Ltd

Quarriers

BUPA Care Homes

BUPA Care Services

Scottish Social Services Council

Association of Directors of Social Work (ADSW)

Association of Headteachers of Residential Special Schools

NCH (formerly known as National Children's Home)

Turning Point

Scottish Out of School Care Network

Business Sector
Confederation of British Industry (CBI) Scotland

Federation of Small Businesses

Forum of Private Businesses

Institute of Directors Scotland

Scottish Chambers of Commerce

Scottish Retail Consortium

Scottish Food and Drink Federation

Fire Industry Confederation

Scotch Whisky Association

The Malt Distillers Association of Scotland

The Cinemas Exhibitors' Association

British Greyhound Racing Board

National Greyhound Racing Club Ltd

British Horseracing Board

National Federation of Retail Newsagents

Scottish Beer and Pub Association

Scottish Business in the Community

Scottish Consumer Council

Scottish Football Association

Scottish Grocers' Federation

Scottish Licensed Trade Association

Scottish Premier League

Scottish Rugby Union

Scottish Council for Development and Industry

Association of British Bookmakers

National Association of Bookmakers Ltd

Scottish Independent Bookmakers Association

Bar, Entertainment and Dance Association

British Casino Association

Association of British Theatre Technicians

UK Warehousing Association

NHS Scotland/Other medical
Chief Executives, NHS Boards

Chief Executives, Special Boards

British Dental Association (Scottish branch)

British Medical Association (Scottish branch)

British Heart Foundation

British Lung Foundation

Cancer Research UK

Macmillan Cancer Relief

Marie Curie Cancer Relief

Chest, Heart and Stroke Scotland

Diabetes UK, Scotland

The State Hospitals Board for Scotland

Scottish Ambulance Service

NHS Scotland (Property and Environment Forum)

NHS Quality Improvement Scotland

The Scottish Health Council

Royal College of Nursing

Royal College of Physicians

Royal College of Surgeons

Royal Society of Edinburgh

Education sector
Scottish Council of Independent Schools

Association of Scottish Colleges

General Teaching Council for Scotland

Universities Scotland

Scottish Parent Teacher Council

The Scottish School Board Association

Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council

Learning and Teaching Scotland

Head Teachers Association of Scotland

Transport
Confederation of Passenger Transport

First Scotrail

Virgin Trains

GNER

Scottish City Link

National Express

British Ports Association

UK Major Ports Group

Caledonian MacBrayne Ltd

Northlink Orkney and Shetland Ferries Ltd

Orkney Ferries

P & O Scottish Ferries

Stena Line Ltd

BAA Edinburgh

BAA Glasgow

BAA Aberdeen

Glasgow Prestwick International Airport

Dundee Airport

Highlands and Islands Airport Ltd

British Midland

British Airways

Easyjet

Loganair

Ryanair

Scotairways

British European

The National Taxi Association

Strathclyde Passenger Transport

The Chamber of Shipping

Clydeport Ltd

Forth Ports Plc

Stagecoach Scotland

Shipping Services Advisory Committee North

Shipping Services Advisory Committee South

Shipping Services Advisory Committee Clyde

Voluntary
Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations (SCVO)

Volunteer Development Scotland

Learning Link Scotland

Association of Chief Officers of Scottish Voluntary Organisations

Salvation Army Scotland

Voluntary Sector Services Workforce Unit

Scottish Civic Trust

Others
Scottish Civic Forum

Fire Protection Association

Fire Service Research and Training Trust

Fire Services National Benevolent Fund

Building Research Establishment

Arson Prevention Bureau

Direct Payments Scotland

National Trust for Scotland

Association of Scottish Community Councils

Citizens Advice Scotland

Scottish Houses in Multiple Occupation Network Group

Scottish Youth Hostels Association

Scottish Association of Local Sports Councils

Sportscotland

Scottish Tourism Forum

Visitscotland

Association of Scottish Visitor Attractions

The Royal Highland Agricultural Society

The Royal Highland Education Trust

Keep Scotland Beautiful

Friends of the Earth Scotland

Copyright Libraries


List reproduced without even the limited courtesy of Colin. S. Todd. [http://www.kingfell.com/~forum/index.php?topic=3947.0]

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 06:53:45 AM »
Who writes this stuff?

Apparently, these people:

Local Government

Convenors of joint fire and rescue boards

Chief Officers of the fire and rescue services

Chief Fire Officers Association (CFOA)

Chief Executives of local authorities

Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (CoSLA)

Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Manager (SOLACE)

Association of Chief Police Officers (Scotland) (ACPOS)

Scottish Parliament
Justice 2 Committee

Scottish Labour Party

Scottish Liberal Democrats

Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party

Scottish Nationalist Party

Scottish Socialist Party

Scottish Green Party

Scottish Senior Citizens' Unity Party

Dennis Canavan, MSP

Ms Jean Turner, MSP

Ms Margo MacDonald, MSP

Scottish Youth Parliament

Scottish Parliament's Information Centre

European Parliament
Scottish MEPs

Other Government Departments/Organisations
Scottish Fire Services College

Fire Service College (Moreton-in-Marsh)

Health and Safety Executive

Ministry of Defence

Scottish Environment Protection Agency

Chief Executive, Scottish Prison Service

Scotland Office

National Assembly for Wales

Northern Ireland Executive

Office of the Deputy Prime Minister

Historic Scotland

Health Protection Scotland

Scottish Commission for the Regulation of Care

Office of the Charity Regulator

Department of Health, Social Security and Public Safety

Scottish Building Standards Agency

Building Standards Advisory Committee

Scottish Enterprise

Highlands and Islands Enterprise

Trade Unions/Staff Associations
Fire Brigades Union (FBU)

Scottish Trades Union Congress (STUC)

Retained Firefighters Union (RFU)

Fire Officers' Association

Association of Principal Fire Officers

UNISON

GMB Scotland

Transport and General Workers' Union

Professional Bodies/Trade Associations
Institution of Fire Engineers

Association of British Insurers

Emergency Planning Society

Forestry and Timber Association

Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) in Scotland Building Control Forum

Scottish Association of Building Standards Managers

The British Hospitality Association

Scottish Personal Assistant Employers Network

Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland

Society of Chief Officers of Trading Standards in Scotland

Cold Storage and Distribution Federation

Equality and Diversity Groups
Positive Action in Housing

Commission for Racial Equality

Equal Opportunities Commission

Scottish Human Rights Centre

African and Caribbean Network

West of Scotland Racial Equality Council

Grampian Racial Equality Council

Tayside Racial Equality Council

Central Scotland Racial Equality Council

Edinburgh and Lothians Racial Equality Council

Scottish Gypsy/Traveller Association

Scottish Refugee Council

Black Community Development Project

BEMIS

Inclusion Scotland

Scottish Disability Equality Forum

Disability Rights Commission

Enable

SENSE Scotland

Capability Scotland

Royal National Institute for the Blind (RNIB)

Royal National Institute for Deaf People (RNID)

Scottish Association for Mental Health

Scottish Council on Deafness

Glasgow Women's Library

Engender

Equality Network

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) Youth

Age Concern Scotland

Help the Aged

OUTRIGHT Scotland

Scottish Consortium for Learning Disability

National Autistic Society Scotland

The Scottish Society for Autism

Deafblind Scotland

Deaf Action

British Deaf Association Scotland

EMPOWER

Black Environment Network

Scottish Council for Minorities Rights

Religious Groups
Action of Churches Together in Scotland

Scottish Interfaith Council

Scottish Catholic Education Service

Church of Scotland Education Department

Evangelical Alliance (Scotland)

Free Church of Scotland

Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland

International Society for Krishna Consciousness (Scotland)

Methodist Church

Scottish Churches Parliamentary Officer

Scottish Council of Jewish Communities

UK Islamic Mission

Radio Ramzan

Glasgow Central Mosque

Care Sector
Woodlands Education Trust

North West Elderly Day Care Center

Scottish Institute for Residential Child Care

Relatives and Residents Association

Alzheimer Scotland

Key Housing Association

Community Care Providers Scotland

CrossReach

Aberlour Child Care Trust

Barnardos

Scottish Care

Abbeyfield Society for Scotland Ltd

Quarriers

BUPA Care Homes

BUPA Care Services

Scottish Social Services Council

Association of Directors of Social Work (ADSW)

Association of Headteachers of Residential Special Schools

NCH (formerly known as National Children's Home)

Turning Point

Scottish Out of School Care Network

Business Sector
Confederation of British Industry (CBI) Scotland

Federation of Small Businesses

Forum of Private Businesses

Institute of Directors Scotland

Scottish Chambers of Commerce

Scottish Retail Consortium

Scottish Food and Drink Federation

Fire Industry Confederation

Scotch Whisky Association

The Malt Distillers Association of Scotland

The Cinemas Exhibitors' Association

British Greyhound Racing Board

National Greyhound Racing Club Ltd

British Horseracing Board

National Federation of Retail Newsagents

Scottish Beer and Pub Association

Scottish Business in the Community

Scottish Consumer Council

Scottish Football Association

Scottish Grocers' Federation

Scottish Licensed Trade Association

Scottish Premier League

Scottish Rugby Union

Scottish Council for Development and Industry

Association of British Bookmakers

National Association of Bookmakers Ltd

Scottish Independent Bookmakers Association

Bar, Entertainment and Dance Association

British Casino Association

Association of British Theatre Technicians

UK Warehousing Association

NHS Scotland/Other medical
Chief Executives, NHS Boards

Chief Executives, Special Boards

British Dental Association (Scottish branch)

British Medical Association (Scottish branch)

British Heart Foundation

British Lung Foundation

Cancer Research UK

Macmillan Cancer Relief

Marie Curie Cancer Relief

Chest, Heart and Stroke Scotland

Diabetes UK, Scotland

The State Hospitals Board for Scotland

Scottish Ambulance Service

NHS Scotland (Property and Environment Forum)

NHS Quality Improvement Scotland

The Scottish Health Council

Royal College of Nursing

Royal College of Physicians

Royal College of Surgeons

Royal Society of Edinburgh

Education sector
Scottish Council of Independent Schools

Association of Scottish Colleges

General Teaching Council for Scotland

Universities Scotland

Scottish Parent Teacher Council

The Scottish School Board Association

Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council

Learning and Teaching Scotland

Head Teachers Association of Scotland

Transport
Confederation of Passenger Transport

First Scotrail

Virgin Trains

GNER

Scottish City Link

National Express

British Ports Association

UK Major Ports Group

Caledonian MacBrayne Ltd

Northlink Orkney and Shetland Ferries Ltd

Orkney Ferries

P & O Scottish Ferries

Stena Line Ltd

BAA Edinburgh

BAA Glasgow

BAA Aberdeen

Glasgow Prestwick International Airport

Dundee Airport

Highlands and Islands Airport Ltd

British Midland

British Airways

Easyjet

Loganair

Ryanair

Scotairways

British European

The National Taxi Association

Strathclyde Passenger Transport

The Chamber of Shipping

Clydeport Ltd

Forth Ports Plc

Stagecoach Scotland

Shipping Services Advisory Committee North

Shipping Services Advisory Committee South

Shipping Services Advisory Committee Clyde

Voluntary
Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations (SCVO)

Volunteer Development Scotland

Learning Link Scotland

Association of Chief Officers of Scottish Voluntary Organisations

Salvation Army Scotland

Voluntary Sector Services Workforce Unit

Scottish Civic Trust

Others
Scottish Civic Forum

Fire Protection Association

Fire Service Research and Training Trust

Fire Services National Benevolent Fund

Building Research Establishment

Arson Prevention Bureau

Direct Payments Scotland

National Trust for Scotland

Association of Scottish Community Councils

Citizens Advice Scotland

Scottish Houses in Multiple Occupation Network Group

Scottish Youth Hostels Association

Scottish Association of Local Sports Councils

Sportscotland

Scottish Tourism Forum

Visitscotland

Association of Scottish Visitor Attractions

The Royal Highland Agricultural Society

The Royal Highland Education Trust

Keep Scotland Beautiful

Friends of the Earth Scotland

Copyright Libraries


List reproduced without even the limited courtesy of Colin. S. Todd. [http://www.kingfell.com/~forum/index.php?topic=3947.0]
That explains it. The Northern Ireland Executive was involved.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Midland Retty

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 04:49:07 PM »
Nah "Help the Aged" - blame them!

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 05:07:48 PM »
Nah "Help the Aged" - blame them!
Thanks for leaving me out of it MR.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Midland Retty

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Re: Scotland- Draft guidance for small B&Bs published for comment
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2010, 11:53:23 AM »
Nah "Help the Aged" - blame them!
Thanks for leaving me out of it MR.


Anytime NT anytime!