When does an HMO become relevant?

[ando]

Now obviously when it is occupied as such licenced or not, but is an unoccupied HMO a relevant premise on licence application or only once licence has been issued?  Scottish answers prefered.

[Clevelandfire 3]

Scottish answers are all you can hope to recieve as relevant premises doesnt figure in english legislation. From what i understand a HMO wouldnt be a relevent premises unless occupied.

[nearlythere]

You might have to consider the purpose of the building or premises rather than than what it says on the label.
A significant finding of an unoccupied HMO is that there would be no risk to occupiers as there arn't any.
There will always be quirks in the application of legislation to keep the devil's advocates busy.
If you are having a particular issue with a premises perhaps you will get more help if you share the specifics with the forum.

[afterburner]

Ando, from the Act: - "a house as respects which the giving of permission to occupy it is an activity for which a licence under the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 (Licensing of Houses in Multiple Occupation) Order 2000 (S.S.I. 2000/177) is required" and I think the operative part is 'permission to occupy'. if permission is needed we're off and running

[ando]

It is nothing to do with building specifics...the service used to audit and  issue notices under the FSA2005 to duty holders who had applied for a licence and let the LA know if and when a building was suitable to licence.

Now their interpretation has changed so we now offer goodwill advice to licence applicants and then audit once a licence has been issued.

The old way makes sense as dangerous HMOs were not licenced!

Now it could be up to a month after a HMO is licenced before we get in to audit, which seems back to front in my mind.

So,is the new way correct and the legislation a bit daft, or the old way correct and my services new  interpretation wrong?

As a statuory objectee to a licence how can we do this if we have no authority to audit HMOs in the licence application process?

[nearlythere]

It is nothing to do with building specifics...the service used to audit and  issue notices under the FSA2005 to duty holders who had applied for a licence and let the LA know if and when a building was suitable to licence.

Now their interpretation has changed so we now offer goodwill advice to licence applicants and then audit once a licence has been issued.

The old way makes sense as dangerous HMOs were not licenced!

Now it could be up to a month after a HMO is licenced before we get in to audit, which seems back to front in my mind.

So,is the new way correct and the legislation a bit daft, or the old way correct and my services new  interpretation wrong?

As a statuory objectee to a licence how can we do this if we have no authority to audit HMOs in the licence application process?

Seems that they are using the licencing authority to determine if the premises are by definition HMOs. Probably not incorrect procedure as there is a specific enforcement authority which must determine if a premise is a HMO in order to licence it and if so the FRS will then enforce the Fire Safety.

[mr angry]

Basically under section 78 of the FSA the house/flat becomes relevant as soon as it REQUIRES a license and not once the license is issued or applied for.

[nearlythere]

Basically under section 78 of the FSA the house/flat becomes relevant as soon as it REQUIRES a license and not once the license is issued or applied for.

I think the point I was making Mr Angry was to let the enforcers of the licencing bit sort out the legal stuff and the rest will be much easier. The situation will then be much clearer.
The Housing people are the ones to determine if a Licence is required or not.
The F&RS are the ones to determine if a FRA is required or not.
If it requires a license it requires a FRA.

[afterburner]

I am a little in doubt who decides whether a Licence is required, but this may not be the F&R Authority. I don't think I agree that the F&R Authority decide whether a FRA is required or not. As Mr. Angry points out the FSA applies through section 78 whenever a Licence is required (whether actually occupied or not). Application of the Act then makes the FRA a statutory duty for the duty holders detailed in sections 53 & 54 and Regulation 21.

Either the Act applies or the Act does not apply, and by extension statutory duties as mentioned apply or do not apply. I'm not aware of any words in sections 61 or 62 which authorises Enforcing Authorities or Enforcing Officers to decide a FRA is or is not necessary.