Dorgard

[cnewby]

Wondering if anyone can direct me to a thread regarding the use of dorgard SCRD's, particularly around their use within an NHS setting as well as community homes.

[Allen Higginson]

http://www.dorgard.com/ As long as you have the audibility then they work. We have priced a number of sheltered accomodation for mags or closers and found these fitted next service (before I knew about them).If they don't work due to audibility then it's the fire alarm at fault and not the unit.

[Colin Newman]

NHS Esates published an advice not on such units.  The gist is that such units were deemed acceptable for some ancilliary uses, but not for the protection of escape routes or for the protection of compartmentation/sub-compartmentation used for progressive horizontal evacuation.

In many healthcare environments the audibility of alarm devices is reduced since they are intended to alert staff and not to unduly stress patients.  In such circumstances it can be difficult to attain suitable alarm sound pressure levels to ensure the door release mechanism is activated.

[dusty]

These units may have a use in certain circumstances However as a general rule I would not recommend thier use as there is no fail safe ( I am aware of Mr. Todds dislike of this) in most cases magnitic hold open, and similar devices will fail therby closing the fire doors in the event of a failer of the fire alarm / detection system, thses devices do not as they require the sounder to set them off, where life is at risk stay away from them.

[Brian Downes]

The Hospital Trusts on my patch fit them to doors that are not risk critical, but only after individual risk assessment, must be following Colin's guidance!
If Care homes in our area insist on wanting to fit them we ask them adopt a similar policy.
Given the current cost of dorguard type devices, magnetic hold open devices often compete if an L1 system is already installed.
Most of my colleagues have formed their own opinion on the effectiveness of the devices.

[cnewby]

If you consider that we have upto 100 doors identified across hospital sites made up of many individual buildings: Do you think it's 'reasonably practicable' to fit hard wired magnetic hold opens to all given the cost and the current financial pressures on all NHS Trusts?  I understand fully the financial implications of an event such as the Rosepark fire; however that doesn't make the decision any easier.  It's also made more difficult when we have CSCI inspectors requesting the fitting of these devices to some of our registered community homes.

[Ricardo]

The latest Building(Scotland) Regulations 2004 techical handbook,details "as an alternative to self closing doors being fitted with hold open devices, an acoustically activated door release mechanism and floor plate complying with BS EN 1155;1997 may be installed on a risk assessment basis.An example of this could be in the case of residential care buildings or hospital where the residents rely on walking aids to move around the building.
However this type of hold open device is not suitable for use in the following circumstances where;
1 - the door is an emergency door, a protected door serving the only escape stair in the building(or the only escape stair servingpart of the building)or a protected door serving a fire fighting shaft:or

2 - a category M fire alarm system as defined in BS 5839;pt1 2002 is installed in the building;or

3 - the initial fire alarm warning signal is intended to alert staff only

[colin todd]

Would the device need third party certification to BS EN 1155 one wonders?

[Paul]

Over the past few years, some of the areas I have worked in, such a device has been frowned upon by inspecting fire officers (GMC & Cheshire Area) and I have to say I agree to a point that these release systems can not be relied upon.

However in building types that have occupants who may be looking for an 'anchor point' to tie off to ( typical self closure device) then these are ideal as balancing the risk of someone finding an 'anchor point' and the door not closing when the alarm sounds, the risk of the aforementioned being more likely to happen would have to be considered.


Having said this I would n't consider using these in any other scenario myself??

[Ken Taylor]

They can also need careful siting to avoid obstruction (eg of trolleys) and physical damage to the unit or door.

[Ricardo]

Fire mag April 2005 has an interesting article on Dorgard, It indicates that late last year a court case recorded 2 deaths in a care home citing 4 breaches of care standards, and particularly deploring the illegal practice of "wedged open" bedrooms doors.
National Care Homes Association (NCHA) chief executive commented"these tragedies should focus our minds on care home owners legal responsibilities to ensure that their premises and procedures safegaurd their residents, in particular checking that fire doors including doors to residents rooms are not wedged open.
The article goes on to say that NCHA also endorses Dorgard, the company says that Dorgard offers care providers the easiest and most cost effective way of legally holding open fire doors into residents rooms safely, at any time of day or night.

[cnewby]

Thanks Ricardo.  Very useful.

[Paul]

Agree Ricardo,

But still has to be assessed as I believe they are not 100%, but in balance are better than nothing.

[cnewby]

I thank everyone for their comments; however, if you have tested the audibility levels, have good compartmentation with a fully automated alarm system and risk assessment can someone explain why there is such a level of discomfort in using such devices?  Many people, on other websites also, have expressed views on Dorgard, but don't back up their opinions with any reasoning.  If we can understand the reasoning  then it may make it easier to decide upon their appropriateness.

[Paul]

I think one of the main issues for me is that it is second best to a 5839 linked system.  Obviously there are cost implications with installing a linked system, but you can not get away from the fact that these closures are only as good as the systems and safety culture within the premises, leaving them wide open to human factors, such as poor / no testing being carried out, batteries not being changed on a regular basis.

I have also known instances where they have been prone to false release and as a consequence doors have been wedged open.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you can assess all you like and make recomendations, however they are open to problems that are difficult to manage.

On the other hand if you are completley sure that the above factors can be managed and you have carried out sufficient testing and assessment of the placement of the dorgards, then, as I say, in balance they are not all bad.