Fire Safety at Sport Grounds

[bilb27]

Good Morning all,

Just after clarification from far more experienced people than me. I know the RRO includes Sports Stadia but is enforced by the LA not the FB. Can anyone enlighten me if they now that LA actively audit these premises outside the terms of the Safety Certificate under the RRO?

I ask as we have a local Football Ground that has issues with the Detection System. They have a lot of offices and various areas are used during other periods for conferences and what not. Bit confused as obviously some grounds have hotels attached and find it difficult to believe that they are enforced by the LA.

Any help or clarification would be appreciated.

Cheers.

[nearlythere]

Good Morning all,

Just after clarification from far more experienced people than me. I know the RRO includes Sports Stadia but is enforced by the LA not the FB. Can anyone enlighten me if they now that LA actively audit these premises outside the terms of the Safety Certificate under the RRO?

I ask as we have a local Football Ground that has issues with the Detection System. They have a lot of offices and various areas are used during other periods for conferences and what not. Bit confused as obviously some grounds have hotels attached and find it difficult to believe that they are enforced by the LA.

Any help or clarification would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Is the LA safety certificate not for the safety of spectators only?

[jayjay]

Its a long time since I had dealings with sports grounds but if I remenber right the safety certificate was only in force on match days at other times  the then (FPA act) was in force may be the same situation now?

[The Colonel]

Have dealt with a football league club recently undetaking a fire risk assessment and previously in my fire safety role for a fire authority who advised the Local Authority who issued the license for the ground. This particular club had very little additional facilities over and above the sports ground, no luxuary of other income streams.

In my role as the fire authority representation on the sports ground fire safety committee we would inspect the ground and advise the LA, we would also take a role on the safety committee. All advice was given to the sports club and to the LA, the LA would have the final say in what to impliment with regard to fire safety having taken the advice of the Fire Service. In most cases advice was implimented without any problem

Since leaving the service and undertaking a fire risk assessment I am aware that some advice from the local fire service has been accepted and some not. Example; capacity of a stand, the fire authority recommended a reduction in a stand capacity due to escape times. As a result of a number of measures being introduced following the risk assessment (improvement in auto detection, upgrading fire resistance of construction and additional protection to escape routes) the LA decided to leave tthe capacity as it was.

However where the fire authiority advised the fitting of an L1 fire alarm system instaed of the L2 in the risk assessment this was supported by the LA, only an additioanl 6 detectors. Certainly some LAs take all advice as a requirement, others are prepared to look at the situation and take a view based on the advice and assessments.

[jokar]

They will probably enforce reactively as they will not have staff availbale as enforcers to undertake this type of role.  As you rightly state tyhe enforcing role was given to them in the Order but I do not know of any LA who does it.

[Tom Sutton]

As jayjay and nearlythere states isn't the the safe certificate only applicable when spectators are on the premises therefore the RR(FS)O would be applicable most of the week? Consequently there would be two enforcing authorities the LA and the FRS for their respective legislation.

Check out guidance from the FLA at  http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/publications/pubs/flabrief.php#b6 you may find it useful.

[jokar]

Tom, it is the LA role to enforce the Order in stadia in totality.  FRS staff were informed in 2006 as part of the CFOA training that a change had been made to the Order and where in its initial stages the FRS would enforce outside of the Safety Certificate it was made clear that for clarity the LA would enforce at all times.  This is regardless of what is on any particular site and it was up to the LA to employ suitable staff to underatke their responsibilities.

[Tom Sutton]

Thanks jokar very interesting is this guidance recorded anywhere DCFO letters or such I will need to research it.

[nearlythere]

Tom, it is the LA role to enforce the Order in stadia in totality.  FRS staff were informed in 2006 as part of the CFOA training that a change had been made to the Order and where in its initial stages the FRS would enforce outside of the Safety Certificate it was made clear that for clarity the LA would enforce at all times.  This is regardless of what is on any particular site and it was up to the LA to employ suitable staff to underatke their responsibilities.

Does the FRSO empower the F&R Service to enable another authority to enforce it's legislation?

[nearlythere]

Tom, it is the LA role to enforce the Order in stadia in totality.  FRS staff were informed in 2006 as part of the CFOA training that a change had been made to the Order and where in its initial stages the FRS would enforce outside of the Safety Certificate it was made clear that for clarity the LA would enforce at all times.  This is regardless of what is on any particular site and it was up to the LA to employ suitable staff to underatke their responsibilities.

Do the F&R Services in England and Wales come under the LA umbrellla?

[AnthonyB]

Does the FRSO empower the F&R Service to enable another authority to enforce it's legislation?

If I recall correctly the F&RS are not so empowered, but the Sec of State can appoint fire inspectors who are not F&RS personnel

[jokar]

Tom, it was a CFOA minute from one of the numerous meetings.  Greater Manchester Fire Service were the lead on the CFOA stuff in 2005 and going into 2006 for the training of FRS staff so if you have a contact there you may be ok.  I will do some research as well and see what I can find.

[Tom Sutton]

Jokar I think I may have found what I was looking for and you and CAFO are right. I checked out RR(FO)O article 25 Enforcing Authorities (d) which if I interpret correctly says the LA is the enforcing authority in relation safety certificates and regulated stands.

[jokar]

Yes you are correct.  However, in the initial stages the LA were only going to enforce when the safety certificate was in force.  The FRS were to be involved at all other times.  However, it was changed at the last minute.  I have made some enquiries to some other about the piece of paper this is written on.

[wee brian]

As I recall

The principle was that there should only be one enforcer so that crowd safety, fire safety, security etc were all looked at together.. But the FRA was a memeber of the safety committee that is required for a licensed sportsground. The expectation was that the FRA would provide the expertise on fire safety but this would be brought in front of the committee.