Fire alarm system for offices

[Mushy]

Hi

Mr hypothetical here again...

hypothetical two storey, fairly modern brick building consisting of offices, all single occupancy...half decent housekeeping ...say 10 offices on ground and same on the first floor, within recognised travel distances and with two seperate protected staircases...usual store rooms and a kitchenette on ground floor.

What fire alarm system would you advice?...L2... L3..triangle... shout fire!!

Ps this isn't for a FRA...just a lil discussion...honest!!

[kurnal]

Go for a category M system mushy, you may wish to consider whether a fire could deveolp anywhere unseen and grow to the extent that it puts people at risk before being detected by people- if so then automatic detection may be indicated.

[Mushy]

Hi Kurnal

the discussion with a friend, who is a current serving fire officer saying L2...reason being cos it has kitchens and stores and...well that was it!

I went along the lines of auto detection in corridors and kitchenette....with call points

however we then chucked in that three offices on the first floor was single travel for 6 metres before a staircase was reached and the office doors had no self closers and the staff didn't want them cos it got hot..

blimey...this sounds like a very very sad conversation...especially when it was in a pub at half time in the England game!!!....

[kurnal]

L2- in this case will mean full detection. Well if thats what you want.

Betcha theres nothing more hazardous than a kettle and microwave in the kitchen?  6 metre dead end aint worth losing sleep about either because its likely that staff in a short dead end would smell the fire before the detector sounded but an L5 or a domestic would dispatch that problem anyway.

Unless those offices are also used as sleeping accommodation!  How many people work there?

[Mushy]

L2- in this case will mean full detection. Well if thats what you want.

Betcha theres nothing more hazardous than a kettle and microwave in the kitchen?  6 metre dead end aint worth losing sleep about either because its likely that staff in a short dead end would smell the fire before the detector sounded but an L5 or a domestic would dispatch that problem anyway.

Unless those offices are also used as sleeping accommodation!  How many people work there?

Kurnal...

I dint want an L2..my mate the station manager did...

as its hypothetical....and not real.....I've just made the kitchen a mini mcdonalds with full blown deep fat fryers and spotty student fryers...oh and at least a thousand people crammed into the offices.....five who have previous for arson

sorry...silly I know ...

[kurnal]

And sleeping at their desks. Offices with the golden arches will probably  justify further detecton in the vicinity depending on the fire separation. But we are still talking M/ L5. Unless they are also sleeping at work.

[Clevelandfire 3]

Your fire officer friend is wholly mistaken and atypical of middle management in Fire Safety Departments. This needs nothing more than a manual system, end of discussion. Perhaps you would also invite your friend to explain why on billys earth an L2 system is required because im at a complete loss. IM sure your mate is a nice bloke, but do yourself a favour, dont ask for fire safety advice from him again.

[Phoenix]

Hi,

Could I just rewind a little - come back down to earth and go back to when this was just a plain ordinary office - and ask if anyone has an opinion on this L2 system that the fire officer is asking for?  If I was the office owner, I might want some justification for such an expensive installation and I might be intrigued by the relevance of the kitchen and stores.  I might be a lot happier with kurnal's first post.

Stu

[Phoenix]

Hi Clevelandfire, almost simultaneous post - Snap!

Stu

[Wiz]

I'm surprised the guy didn't suggest an L1.

If he is going to 'cover his ar*e 'cos he ain't got a clue', he might as well go all the way!

A sure test of the expertise of anyone who has asked for an 'L2' system is to ask them which of the required automatic detectors are those that take it beyond an L3 category. They normally cannot answer.

I'd agree with Prof. K that a M category system would be suffcient but I think the benefits of providing automatic detection in the parts of the escape route common to all floors i.e the staircases would be acceptable against the cost in providing these at the same time as installing an M system (i.e call points would anyway be installed pretty close to where the detectors would be installed). The addition of these staircase detectors would provide a M/L5 category.

[Mushy]

Your fire officer friend is wholly mistaken and atypical of middle management in Fire Safety Departments. This needs nothing more than a manual system, end of discussion. Perhaps you would also invite your friend to explain why on billys earth an L2 system is required because im at a complete loss. IM sure your mate is a nice bloke, but do yourself a favour, dont ask for fire safety advice from him again.

Hi Clevey

Yes he is a really nice bloke...gets his round in anyhow...

lol i wouldn't take advice off him as i was in the job 27 years and he is a mere 24 yearer ...and mainly in ops and more akin to sticking up smokies with no nails...but he is now in fire safety and lets just say he is in the learning stage!

ok I shut up now...you can all get back to discussing proper stuff 

[nearlythere]

Your fire officer friend is wholly mistaken and atypical of middle management in Fire Safety Departments. This needs nothing more than a manual system, end of discussion. Perhaps you would also invite your friend to explain why on billys earth an L2 system is required because im at a complete loss. IM sure your mate is a nice bloke, but do yourself a favour, dont ask for fire safety advice from him again.

Hi Clevey

Yes he is a really nice bloke...gets his round in anyhow...

lol i wouldn't take advice off him as i was in the job 27 years and he is a mere 24 yearer ...and mainly in ops and more akin to sticking up smokies with no nails...but he is now in fire safety and lets just say he is in the learning stage!

ok I shut up now...you can all get back to discussing proper stuff 

There is only one thing worst than a bad fire safety officer and thats a bad one who thinks he/she is good, especially those that think they are experts after a year or two at the coal face.
Expect much, much more of these types people.

[bungle]

Just a thought...... What happens when we find out that all the staff on the ground floor go home at 5 pm and the first floor stay till 10pm or even later, who will detect a fire on the ground floor?
Against that there are two stairs so hopefully one will always be usable so I would go for L3 , I really don't understand why an L2 has come into play.

Any comments?

[kurnal]

Theres probably no difference between L3 and L2 in the building as described.