Tenants of flats- legal rights

[kurnal]

I have just signed a contract to rent a flat in a Birmingham tower block.

The Maaging agent says is it not their policy to share the findings of the fire risk assessment with tenants. "The reports are far too lengthy and contain too much technical detail for their tenants to understand". 

Reading between the lines I dont think they have one.

But looking at the Fire Safety Order- as a tenant do I have the right to demand that the prescribed information is shared with me? 

Your views please.

[nearlythere]

Seems to be that the RP must carry out a FRA with consideration to relevant persons (tenents) but, unless an employee or an outside undertaking, the provision of information is not a requirement.

[Midland Retty]

Hi Kurnal

Legally I do not believe they have any obligation to provide you with that information under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order. (Repsonsible Persons only have a duty to inform employees on the specifics of the risk assessment, but not relevant persons - see art 19)

However you have made a reasonable request, and I dare say that if you requested the info again under the Freedom of Information Act they would have to supply you with that information.

As far as I'm concerned you should be entitled to the information, it is not for the managing agent to decide what is, or what isn't, too technical for a tenant to understand, and their response seems very unhelpful.

[nearlythere]

Does the FOI not apply to public bodies only?

If their reason is "The reports are far too lengthy and contain too much technical detail for their tenants to understand" and you show you have the necessary level of competence to understand "lengthy and technical details" regarding fire safety, and they still refuse, I would agree with you that a FRA does not exist.

[CivvyFSO]

There is another option besides them not having one. They have a good in-depth one, and there is a list as long as your arm, detailing works required to acheive compliance. 

[kurnal]

Had a long chat with the Managing Agent, turned out to be part of a group I have done work for in the past, on knowing this their attitude changed and full information was given.   

But I had never previously considered the rights of relevant persons to access the prescribed information and I see this as a big hole in the law.

A tenant of a private landlord has no right to obtain the findings of the fire risk assessment or the emergency plan and and the RP has no duty to divulge it?

[The Colonel]

Interesting comments on this subject and thought provoking. I am undertaking a FRA for a housing association on a small block of flats on monday because one of the leaseholders within the building is kicking up a fuss as they want details of the FRA. The association had not as yet undetaken a FRA on this particular block, though they have on some of thier stock.

We have the added benifit of a Weslh Assembly government in South Wales and the lease holder is already making his point to them, but as far as I am aware the Weslsh Assembly dont have any powers over the info in a FRA. interesting points about "relevant Persons" which I shall be passing on.

[Phoenix]

You having a bit of trouble with your Wellsh Weslesh Welsh there, Colonel?

[CivvyFSO]

But I had never previously considered the rights of relevant persons to access the prescribed information and I see this as a big hole in the law.

I don't see why this is a hole in the law. Your right to live in a block of flats that is safe is written in the law. Just like when you travel on a bus/train/plane. The safety checks should have taken place, the driver/pilot vetting should have taken place. The details of those things should be irrelevant to you.

Your real problem is that you know from experience the real picture, as I bet most of the buildings you go in have works required, and you also know that some assessors competence levels are questionable, and that the FRS/LA might not have inspected the place. I suppose it is like going parachuting, if you knew how to pack a chute you would probably rather pack your own. Ignorance is bliss.

[kurnal]

I don't see why this is a hole in the law. Your right to live in a block of flats that is safe is written in the law. Just like when you travel on a bus/train/plane. The safety checks should have taken place, the driver/pilot vetting should have taken place. The details of those things should be irrelevant to you.

I disagree. The airline has a legal duty to inform me of the emergency procedures on boarding a plane. Its written into the law. But when I take up a tenancy of a flat the landlord has no duty to tell me the evacuation strategy for the building and if he doesnt the Law does not give me any mechanism or rights to obtain that information from him.

The fire strategy for the building certainly requires me to do something- ie stay put, call the fire brigade, evacuate, not to use the lift  or whatever. But theres no way I can find out what is required of me if the landlord chooses not to tell me.

[Midland Retty]

Very true Civvy, but by the same token why would the managing agents or landlord choose not to divulge out such information when asked to do so?.

If they've done everything by the book, then whats the problem? It just smacks of having something to hide. I could understand a policy of not giving out that info unless someone specifically asked for it, but a blanket "no" doesn't sit right with me.

If I dont like the bus Im travelling on I can simply get off at the next stop, or I can choose not fly with that airline again. We can't always be so choosey about where we live - the place where we sleep and spend most of our time.

Clearly Kurnal has a heightened awareness of the risks involved, and I think that having made a reasonable request the Managing Agents should have been more helpful to him.

A tenant is different from an airline passenger or a customer. There is in my opinion the necessity to provide them with key bits of information to help them feel safer, be more safety concious and know what to do in the event of an emergency.

(By the way you were right about the FOA Nearlythere - applies to public bodies only)

[Midland Retty]

Just looked at your last post Kurnal.

Youve moved the goal posts a little - are you talking about the issue of residents being informed of the action to be taken in the event of fire , or the significant findings of the risk assessment?

For what its worth I would certainly say there is a lawful requirement for tenants to be given basic instruction on what to do in the event of fire.

Not a lawful requirement to inform tenants on the findings of the risk assessment.

[nearlythere]

Is there something in Housing legislation which is not in the FSO to cover this?

[kurnal]

Youve moved the goal posts a little - are you talking about the issue of residents being informed of the action to be taken in the event of fire , or the significant findings of the risk assessment?

For what its worth I would certainly say there is a lawful requirement for tenants to be given basic instruction on what to do in the event of fire.

Not a lawful requirement to inform tenants on the findings of the risk assessment.

Sorry for moving the goalposts Retty its just how things developed since my first posting.

Funny how if the RP employs a schoolboy to mop the floors after school he has to provide the parent with information, but not the people who live there. I accept that this is however the case and I have no such rights.

In looking into this, I have struggled to find any lawful requirement for tenants of flats to be given basic instruction on what to do in the event of fire under the Fire Safety Order. I would be grateful to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

[Clevelandfire 3]

In looking into this, I have struggled to find any lawful requirement for tenants of flats to be given basic instruction on what to do in the event of fire under the Fire Safety Order. I would be grateful to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

Simples. Article 8.