Vicar of Spalding & Ecclesiastical Insurance v Chubb

[The Reiver]

Glad to see a bit of "common" prevailing (eventually)

ORIGINAL CASE:
http://www.broking.co.uk/professional-broking/analysis/1496227/supplier-beware

THE APPEAL RESULT:
http://www.solicitorsjournal.com/story.asp?sectioncode=2&storycode=16832&c=1&eclipse_action=getsession

FULL APPEAL c/w LEGAL JARGON
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/981.html

[nearlythere]

Where do you see the bit of "common" prevailing Reiver?

DP in a kitchenette?

[John Webb]

I'd be interested to know if the kitchenette was simply a partition seperating it from the church or an actual seperate room.

I certainly would have disagreed with the installation of a 6kg sized DP extinguisher in a 'Kitchenette' at any time - mainly on the grounds that this size is well above the size needed to control any likely fire in such a place and that if discharged in a confined space could adversely affect the operator both in vision and breathing. If the kitchenette had no ceiling then I'd also object to such a large DP on the grounds of the spread of mess outside the kitchenette area.

[Psuedonym]

Regardless of size the morons involved would still have carried it off to the disharge area.

However, maybe a 9Kg would have been too much to lift and run off with thus reducing the overall damage or how about a fixed suppression system for the kitchenette - be a damn site cheaper than £240,000?

BringbackBCF.co.uk 

or "dear" this could run and run .....

[Davo]

Interesting......

Why wasn't the church administrator called?
What was in the kitchenette that required 6kg DP?


davo

[The Reiver]

Where do you see the bit of "common" prevailing Reiver?

DP in a kitchenette?

Hi Nearly,
Regardless of the medium involved here.
The bit of "common" comes from the fact that if this appeal had been lost, no company selling fire extinguishers would ever have been able to specify any equipment for any client ever again without a damages claim hanging over them (I don't think I'm over exagerating).

Accidental or malicious discharge of any extinguisher would have equated to the supply / service company getting its rear end sued to oblivion for any damage and clean up.
Even water causes damage !!!
Also, would any commercial insurer ever consider covering a service company getting damage claims thrown at it on a weekly (or even daily) basis.

This has been a massive test case for the industry. Legal precidents are the be all and end all. Forget the "Chubb" bit, it could have been anyone of us. However, would a smaller company have had the resources to go to appeal.

Bottom line is.......How many of us in the trade have ever recommended a fire extinguisher to a client ? We do it from a fire safety stand point every day.
Remembering that this DP was moved from it's area of coverage and maliciously discharged elsewhere and had nothing to do with fire safety, just pure vandalism.
Anyone could do that with any extinguisher in any location.
The implications, should this case have been lost, beggar belief.

[nearlythere]

I think the issue Reiver is the wisdom of providing DP extinguishers in a clean environment such as a building like this. I do on request recommend extinguishers regularily to clients and would never recommend a DP in the main area of a church never mind a kitchenette.
I have just returned from Lubeck in Germany and had visited a puppet museum which had thousands of antiquated puppets of significent historical and monitory value in unsealed display cabinets. The extinguisher cover was with DP only and I wondered if the proprieter, the enforcement authority or the extinguisher provider would have considered the consequences of the discharging of one in any of the rooms containing the displays.

[AnthonyB]

Certainly a 6 kilo Powder for a kitchenette is overkill (I won't start on the £150+ price tag!).

Most clients when the mess of a DP is explained to them will shy away from them and go for the water based*/CO2 cover option - it doesn't have to be that more expensive and in the latest example of this yesterday would have cost no extra - the client could replace all their DP with water only as there was only one area of specific electrical risk and that already had CO2.

The fact that a fair number of water based extinguishers are available with approval on up to 1000V further limits the 'least worst' argument.

I've not specified DP in an office or retail buliding now for years - even boiler rooms don't really need them as no occupier is going to tackle a Class C risk - all the training says so.

Would it be the end of the world if Chubb lost and extinguisher companies wouldn't specify? Probably not as from my experience a large number either don't know what they are talking about and put in totally inappropriate equipment or specify for their own advantage with equipment where it isn't required and in excessive numbers. The fire protection industry goes down in my estimation year by year as competency seems to drop.