Automatic Hold Open Devices

[Stinky]

What is everyone's opinion on automatic hold open devices to the majority of fire doors in a property with only a manual fire alarm system?

I personally don't like it.  I would prefer to see no hold open devices or an automatic detection system.

Or am I being a bit over the top?

Would management suffice i.e. anyone leaving the building WILL hit a break glass call point?

Stinky

[Phoenix]

I suggest you read "BS 7273-4:2007 Code of practice for the operation of fire protection measures – Part 4: Actuation of release mechanisms for doors".  This gives, amongst other advice, guidance about detector locations relative to such devices.

Stu

[nearlythere]

What is everyone's opinion on automatic hold open devices to the majority of fire doors in a property with only a manual fire alarm system?

I personally don't like it.  I would prefer to see no hold open devices or an automatic detection system.

Or am I being a bit over the top?

Would management suffice i.e. anyone leaving the building WILL hit a break glass call point?

Stinky

A hold open device without a detection system is like an extinguisher without the water.

[Stinky]

I suggest you read "BS 7273-4:2007 Code of practice for the operation of fire protection measures – Part 4: Actuation of release mechanisms for doors".  This gives, amongst other advice, guidance about detector locations relative to such devices.

Stu

We wouldn't have a forum for questions if we all read the guides

[David Rooney]

I suggest you read "BS 7273-4:2007 Code of practice for the operation of fire protection measures – Part 4: Actuation of release mechanisms for doors".  This gives, amongst other advice, guidance about detector locations relative to such devices.

Stu

We wouldn't have a forum for questions if we all read the guides

Equally it's a bit difficult to provide comprehensive answers if you haven't read the guides !!

7273 pt 4 section 13 suggests category L1/L2/or L3 as suitable (without further modification) for buildings with hold open devices.

Alternatively an L5 system can be specified requiring careful planning and positioning of detectors near to doors utilising the hold open devices.

In short, hold open devices in a building with no automatic smoke detection doesn't comply with 7273 pt 4 and although I'm no risk assessor it sounds to me like they should be disconnected until properly assessed and automatic detection installed.

[colin todd]

...... and a cracking wee standard it is too.  Why would anyone giving professional advice not already have a copy?

I had a colonoscopy and ogd this week ( I just love the drugs they give you for the procedure).  I am going to check medicnet, cos I bet I will find that the prof who did the procedure has a question telling people what he found and asking them what advice he should give me when I go for the follow up appointment. If I find it and read it, I will certainly cancel my appointment and save myself the fee, though I do like the nurses who bring me the coffee.

[Davo]

CT

Hope all is well and you're not mincing around too much


davo

[Wiz]

...... and a cracking wee standard it is too.  ............

Don't get me started again 

[Tom Sutton]

Stinky you haven't said what type of automatic hold open devices you are referring to, electrical, acoustic or wireless operated and is there location acceptable according to your FRA?

[CivvyFSO]

Just to throw a thought in here:

If the premises is truly suitable for a manual fire alarm system, i.e. People would sound the alarm and a fire would not be able to grow unnoticed, then maybe it is not as much of a problem as we are making out.

[FSO]

Totally agree Civvy.

After all, isn't that the whole point of a Fire risk assessment?

[Galeon]

Just to throw a thought in here:

If the premises is truly suitable for a manual fire alarm system, i.e. People would sound the alarm and a fire would not be able to grow unnoticed, then maybe it is not as much of a problem as we are making out.

I agree with you obviously  like minded people will also , but I have numerous occasions where persons are adverse to using call points , unless they want to get out of Bescos with their shopping without paying............... wouldn’t dream of it myself always use a test key more professional 

[Tom W]

...... and a cracking wee standard it is too.  ............

Don't get me started again 

prod 

[Tom Sutton]

If the premises is truly suitable for a manual fire alarm system, i.e. People would sound the alarm and a fire would not be able to grow unnoticed, then maybe it is not as much of a problem as we are making out.

Thats fine providing you are prepared to treat the appropriate British standards as recommendations and ignore them. Then there's that man with the curly wig and can you put a good enough case to him if required.

[FSO]

If the premises is truly suitable for a manual fire alarm system, i.e. People would sound the alarm and a fire would not be able to grow unnoticed, then maybe it is not as much of a problem as we are making out.

Thats fine providing you are prepared to treat the appropriate British standards as recommendations and ignore them. Then there's that man with the curly wig and can you put a good enough case to him if required.

Ahem!       http://fire.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4952.0