Fire safety Signs

[Jim Creak]

All I can say repeatedly is.....As a function of the variation allowed under schedule 1 Part II BS 5499 and ISO7010 were developed and that in the unanimous opinion of both International and British Standards Committees representing every aspect of fire safety, enforcement authority, built environment, disability and representation industry associations that there is an appropriate technical solution to safety wayguidance for the built environment. That technical solution has been developed because of the fear of confusion, misunderstanding and possible dangers inherent with using graphical symbols with low comprehension credentials.

The technical best practice solution for design is BS 5499 ISO 7010 and for design and application  Part 4......if that does not suit the RP then that is a significant risk he has every right to accept.

I only advocate that the RP is informed of the current developments so that the whole problem is not perpetuated for longer than necessary.

[Tom Sutton]

Agreed, but surfing the web most fire exit signs conform to the BS however if you require an illuminated signs I did not find one that conformed to the BS all were Euro signs, where can RP,s purchase illuminated BS signs? What is the situation regarding ICEL?

[Jim Creak]

ICEL /LIF are technical committee members of PH8/1 responsible for fire safety signs. They have written to all their members withdrawing technical support for the Euro Signs in October 1997...Their members maintain the problem rests with enforcers and architects...so the problem perpetuates.

Conformance and specification is buyers responsibility........suppliers will sell you what you ask for....caveat emptor.

[AnthonyB]

A small number of suppliers so supply exit boxes with BS legends, but in the main the only other way is to get the exit boxes without the legend factory applied and to buy separate BS overlays to fit from people like Jactone & Jalite.

Which is quite a lot of faffing about, hence why people often just still the euro signs up.

[Jim Creak]

Which is exactly why I have consistently said leave light boxes to illuminate and signs to sign......separate them there is no valid reason for them to be combined.

[Tom Sutton]

As the Euro directive is to be amended withdraw the annex (the pictures) and refer to ISO 7010 then surely the Health and Safety (Safety Signs and Signals) Regulations will have to be amended which will make the Euro-sign illegal and the manufactures of illuminated exit boxes will have to conform?

[kurnal]

In the interests of making progress should we review the guidance not to mix signs in buildings? I have had a discussion with an architect this morning to persuade him to incorporate BS5499/ISO7010 in an extension to a school building.
There are numerous Euro signs in the existing parts of the school and the school cannot afford to replace them.
The architect proposed to install Euro signs in the new extension to be consistent. I have used Jims argument over ISO7010 and understanding to persuade him to install BS5499 signs in the new extension because it is the only way we will ever start to make progress. Other signs in the building will only be replaced as and when they wear out.

Was I right?

[AnthonyB]

They might not have much choice - the five biggest signs manufacturers and distributors have discontinued the EC sign, only one of the remaining medium/big players still offers them, which means most outlets (who buy from one of the big six and use distributor catalogues) can only supply the BS or ISO sign.

So unless you expect RP's to undergo wholesale replacement of every sign and exit box you are going to have to mix.

[Jim Creak]

I have never concerned myself with mixing for two reasons......Euro signs are normally installed over final doors and with all due respect to all my previous arguments anything green, rectangular and illuminated will be recognised in this location and context.......secondly it is the wayguidance message that is vitally important to progress evacuees through the means of escape, the signs that are fitted at changes of direction and indicating alternative escape routes that have to influence alternative behaviour under emergency conditions. These escape route signs need to be intuitive and immediately understood.

Obviously it would be ideal to change to the best convention which is BS5499 / ISO 7010 and the most cost effective way is to replace the back illuminated sign with an ordinary sign or photoluminescent sign. I have done many calculations to find that there is by a huge margin sufficient illumination under emergency lighting to satisfy requirements. With a photoluminescent escape route sign with performance to satisfy ISO 17398 for less than £15.00 you have belt and braces. Save energy, save maintenance and very effective.