Burning issues top 5

[Eli]

 I am just trying to establish for an event later this year, the major issues of concern relating to fire safety in the UK today.

I understand that this may be slightly different depending on your job or geographical location but many will be common across the board. Your top 5 would be much appreciated.

Here are my 5 for starters, nothing too controversial I hope. 

1 Competence standards amongst fire risk assessors
2 ‘Fire Futures’ and implications for the FRS
3 ‘Fire safety’ cost cutting in businesses. (High risk sleeping mainly)
4 The enforcement of fire safety legislation.
5 New build fire safety. 

I think each one could be broken down in to specifics but if you can do a general, ‘this is concerning for me’ that will do.

Many thanks

[nearlythere]

 I am just trying to establish for an event later this year, the major issues of concern relating to fire safety in the UK today.

I understand that this may be slightly different depending on your job or geographical location but many will be common across the board. Your top 5 would be much appreciated.

Here are my 5 for starters, nothing too controversial I hope. 

1 Competence standards amongst fire risk assessors
2 ‘Fire Futures’ and implications for the FRS
3 ‘Fire safety’ cost cutting in businesses. (High risk sleeping mainly)
4 The enforcement of fire safety legislation.
5 New build fire safety. 

I think each one could be broken down in to specifics but if you can do a general, ‘this is concerning for me’ that will do.

Many thanks

Just one point Eli. I think the RP may be somewhat responsible when it comes to the level of competency. RPs in general are only looking to tick a box and doing so as cheaply as possible.
Competency?   The words monkeys and peanuts come mind.

[SamFIRT]

Well here are the top 5 things that are keeping me awake at the moment .... 


1.   The closure of the UK Forensic Science Service
2.   Technical competence of Fire Investigators and their propensity to partnership working (or not)
3.   Fire Futures and the associated cuts of FRS’s (and especially Controls)
4.   Fire engineering principles (standards) and their relevance to reality; especially with new construction technology
5.   Competence of Fire Safety professionals; both public and private sector (with closer symbiotic working synergy )

Hope this helps

Sam

[jokar]

My 5 would be:
1. the competence of fire safety professionals
2. the knowledge of an RP
3. the education of fire safety professionals
4. risk assessment versus prescriptive standards
5. how to stop the continual technical detail being written into standards that should really be quite simple.

[Eli]

Nearly I think that’s included in my number 3
Sam and jokar thanks we have a couple in common which is reassuring and some very different which is healthy

[nearlythere]

Nearly I think that’s included in my number 3
Sam and jokar thanks we have a couple in common which is reassuring and some very different which is healthy

I was thinking more about attitude of business to the FRA process Eli. Just get the assessment done as cheaply as possible regardless of what it contains. Most businesses don't give a toot about fire safety. They are more concerned about ticking a box.

[SamFIRT]

Most businesses don't give a toot about fire safety. They are more concerned about ticking a box.

It’s all about human behaviour and experiential learning again.

Most people have little or no experience of an emergency situation. Most people therefore are in the “it will never happen to me" camp or the "emergencys only happen to silly people" camp and the hoops they have to jump through in order to prevent something they feel will never happen become a bind and a waste of time and money.

What they fail to see is the reason most people have little or no experience of emergency situations is because of the safety infrastructure.

Ergo; if the smoke alarm goes off in most people’s home in the morning with a smell of burning toast, they see it as a nuisance. Not the detection of an incipient fire. Because they don’t think a toaster or a grill pan can catch fire, because they have no experience of it. Most Firefighters on the other hand do. 

If a fire alarm goes off at work most people assume it is a false alarm. Even if there is supporting evidence.

 

[nearlythere]

Most businesses don't give a toot about fire safety. They are more concerned about ticking a box.

If a fire alarm goes off at work most people assume it is a false alarm.

Because it most likely will be.

[SamFIRT]

Quote

Most businesses don't give a toot about fire safety. They are more concerned about ticking a box.

If a fire alarm goes off at work most people assume it is a false alarm.

Because it most likely will be.

True

So .....................is that down to poor engineering, poor risk assessments, poor management, poor system selection, or what?

sorry ..............going off topic a bit Eli but it is the $64000000 question.

[jokar]

I think the more you engineer the less chance of a response as it is not understood.  Human behaviour would dictate that the simplest solution is probably best unless stewarding assists.

[wee brian]

Why the long face. Things are better in the UK than most countries.

[colin todd]

Brian, you have clearly never had to deal with the DVLA.

[Phoenix]

I can agree with this one - to an extent...

... if the smoke alarm goes off in most people’s home in the morning with a smell of burning toast, they see it as a nuisance. Not the detection of an incipient fire. Because they don’t think a toaster or a grill pan can catch fire, because they have no experience of it. Most Firefighters on the other hand do. 

Once, when cooking bacon in my brother's house, the smoke alarm at the top of the stairs went off (surprise surprise) so I went to waft it (as you do).  When I came back to the cooker the grill was on fire.  I have always attributed the cause of the fire to the presence of the smoke alarm.  And, sadly, I was a firefighter at the time.  I still ate some of the bacon.

I don't know if I can come up with five concerns but here's a couple. 

1. Deregulation of fire safety in respect of night clubs.  Fire safety in such premises is of paramount importance yet some fire risk assessors do not seem to be able to adequately assess safe capacities.

2. The bungled together nature of BS9999.

3. The fact that under 9999 a club with two 800mm exits will safely accommodate 195 people yet under ADB it will only accommodate 100. (It's the 195 I'm worried about, not the 100.)

4. The large number of errors found in BS7974 and all its PDs.

5. The disgraceful arrogance of many fire engineers which is compounded by their incompetence.  The two characteristics seem to be positively correlated.

6. The inadequacy and outdatedness (have I just made up a new word?) of ADB.

Oh, that's six, and I was just getting going.  I'll leave it there.  1 and 3 are pretty much the same anyway.

Stu

[Tom W]

Ok Ill chip in.

1. Non uniformed inspecting officers. There is probably a lot of good however there is also some very poor ones who cling on to the guides as if they are willy wonkers golden ticket.

2. Fire & Rescue services trading *ahem Essex *ahem

3. No Government backing for mandatory qualifications and qualities of risk assessors. I will just say that I am only thinking about medium and high risk buildings.

4. Local Authorities and Housing Associations seemingly awarded FRA contracts based on cost rather than quality.

5. Fire Futures and the associated cuts of FRS’s

[colin todd]

The smoke alarms in my kitchen never go off.  I eat out all the time.