Author Topic: Burning issues top 5  (Read 42366 times)

Offline Tom W

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2011, 02:57:37 PM »

Guys, guys. There's a lot of love escaping out the window here.
Piglet, I'm going to insert a flower in the end of your branch.
Civvy, I'm going to insert a flower in the end of your, er your ??? ??? ??? ??? What do you have that I can insert a flower into the end of?

You're going to buy me flowers? Nice

Apologies if my tone sounded angry, it wasn't supposed to. I was just debating. Its actually quite an interesting one (for me)

Im probably guilty of writing too broad of a statement. I stand by my (less broad) statement though.

Civvy - I wasn't asking your previous job to in some way open you up to ridicule. I was just interested.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2011, 03:27:03 PM »
Im guessing at your username is civvy you are a civvyfso, can I ask what you did for a living before your current role?

Drawing office / CAD / Engineering / IT

I am guessing a valid comment would be what would any of that have to do with fire safety, and why would a firefighter not be better at fire safety than me at that point.

My answer would be that neither me OR a firefighter would be capable of effectively enforcing fire legislation at that point, we would both require training in order to not be a liability to the public and the authority.

Using the F1 analogy, you wouldn't let either person on the track in your multi-million pound car until they had lots of training.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2011, 03:32:15 PM »
Too right mate. Would you let Lewis Hamilton drive your F1?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14701797.stm

Bet you he's not even qualified to drive it.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 03:34:26 PM by nearlythere »
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Midland Retty

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2011, 03:34:44 PM »

Apologies if my tone sounded angry, it wasn't supposed to. I was just debating. Its actually quite an interesting one (for me) 

Not at all Piglet, we are all chums here, and its good to debate  ;D ;D

Now then about this job with your F1 Racing team...is the money good?

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2011, 03:37:32 PM »
Too right mate. Would you let Lewis Hamilton drive your F1?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14701797.stm

Bet you he's not even qualified to drive it.

Maybe he should have spent a bit longer with BSM getting some experience.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2011, 03:50:27 PM »
Too right mate. Would you let Lewis Hamilton drive your F1?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14701797.stm

Bet you he's not even qualified to drive it.

Maybe he should have spent a bit longer with BSM getting some experience.
Maybe he should have read a few more of the guides.  ;D

Lesson Two. To turn the car to the left you rotate the wheel in front of you anti clockwise.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 03:53:32 PM by nearlythere »
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Tom W

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2011, 03:52:14 PM »
Im guessing at your username is civvy you are a civvyfso, can I ask what you did for a living before your current role?

Drawing office / CAD / Engineering / IT

I am guessing a valid comment would be what would any of that have to do with fire safety, and why would a firefighter not be better at fire safety than me at that point.

My answer would be that neither me OR a firefighter would be capable of effectively enforcing fire legislation at that point, we would both require training in order to not be a liability to the public and the authority.

Using the F1 analogy, you wouldn't let either person on the track in your multi-million pound car until they had lots of training.

Interesting, thanks for not taking offence and sharing. My point is prior to training that a FF would be a better candidate for the job than the majority of other people. Of course training is essential.

Oh and the F1 job is already snapped up apparantly Kurnal fancies the lifestyle so has got himself sponsorship from CT

Watch out Jenson when Kurnals got the wind going through his hair  ;)

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2011, 03:54:27 PM »
Im guessing at your username is civvy you are a civvyfso, can I ask what you did for a living before your current role?

Drawing office / CAD / Engineering / IT

I am guessing a valid comment would be what would any of that have to do with fire safety, and why would a firefighter not be better at fire safety than me at that point.

My answer would be that neither me OR a firefighter would be capable of effectively enforcing fire legislation at that point, we would both require training in order to not be a liability to the public and the authority.

Using the F1 analogy, you wouldn't let either person on the track in your multi-million pound car until they had lots of training.

Interesting, thanks for not taking offence and sharing. My point is prior to training that a FF would be a better candidate for the job than the majority of other people. Of course training is essential.

Oh and the F1 job is already snapped up apparantly Kurnal fancies the lifestyle so has got himself sponsorship from CT

Watch out Jenson when Kurnals got the wind going through his hair  ;)
Rectum hair I presume?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline SamFIRT

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2011, 03:57:13 PM »
Interestingly Mr Hamilton seems to be open to critique, self-analysis and to be able to admit when he is wrong, this being the first step to true understanding.  :D
Sam

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2011, 04:25:11 PM »
Interesting, thanks for not taking offence and sharing. My point is prior to training that a FF would be a better candidate for the job than the majority of other people. Of course training is essential.

By the same logic, if Raul Moat was still alive, would he make a better soldier than me or you? He fired a gun, so he clearly has a head start therefore is a better candidate, yes?

There are many other qualities that go towards any role, the best candidate will usually have a broad range of qualities. For an inspector you need to be able to interpret technical data, and also put it in clear english when explaining it to a punter, you need to be able to keep potentially hostile situations under control, you need to be authorititive when required, you need to be able to apply common-sense, you need to be able to create clear written records of occurrences/actions. You can prove all of these qualities with no mention of fire at all, and if someone could prove to me that they can do all these things, then I think the potential there would far outweigh a little general fire safety knowledge.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2011, 04:27:47 PM »
Don't take this as me having a go at operational staff in fire safety roles. Some of our best inspectors are ex-operational guys, but I don't think that they are good because they are ex-ops, they are good because their personal qualities lend towards being a good inspector and would be good at the job regardless of any operational background.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2011, 05:05:37 PM »
Don't take this as me having a go at operational staff in fire safety roles. Some of our best inspectors are ex-operational guys, but I don't think that they are good because they are ex-ops, they are good because their personal qualities lend towards being a good inspector and would be good at the job regardless of any operational background.
Thats a really magnificent point Civvy. We can all learn from that.
As I keep saying, sometimes, there are good and poor fire safety consultants and unfortunately, because of the "I was once a firefighter" tag, we are seeing more of the latter.
Yellcom in NI is full of Fire Safety Consultants I have never heard of and I wonder have they become instant experts because they have attended a 2 1/2 day Fire Risk Assessors course. It is also full of Fire Safety Consultants I know and some are good, some not so good and some I wouln't trust to do a FRA for a melting igloo.
But until the F&R start to prosecute these cowboys they will flourish.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline DavyFire

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2011, 09:59:48 PM »
Civvy, I'm sure you would have to agree that if you tested one FF on general fire safety and an accountant for example the FF would almost always win.

So they have a better background.

That is a silly comparison to make.

A better one would be to compare the knowledge of a University Fire Officer or Hospital Fire Officer  (many of whom have never worked for the fire brigade) against the firefighter. The Uni / Hosp Fire Officer would always win.

I will say this until I'm blue in the face...fire safety and firefighting are two very different things, they may be related, but the fact you have been a firefighter does not make you a competent fire safety inspector.

MF, I have do disagree on this one. A residential care/ nursing home I visited had been risk assessed by a Hospital fire officer ( who works for a large hospital board) He hadn't bothered to inspect the roof space area. Too hung up on the fact there were no instructions on the washing machine, as requested in HTM84!
If he had he would have seen the perforations in the fire compartment walls caused by workmen and the fact that AFD had not been extended to all compartments as required
Hope he is the exception

Offline Tom Sutton

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2011, 09:33:10 AM »
Don't take this as me having a go at operational staff in fire safety roles. Some of our best inspectors are ex-operational guys, but I don't think that they are good because they are ex-ops, they are good because their personal qualities lend towards being a good inspector and would be good at the job regardless of any operational background.

Agreed Civvy but those qualities you refer to are the same qualities make a firefighter a good firefighter but it doesn't preclude others that are not firefighters. As I have said before does it matter, in the near future FS will be manned only by civvies and most probably separated from the operation role but hopefully under the auspices of the FRS.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 09:36:54 AM by Tom Sutton »
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Midland Retty

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2011, 10:17:24 AM »
MF, I have do disagree on this one. A residential care/ nursing home I visited had been risk assessed by a Hospital fire officer ( who works for a large hospital board) He hadn't bothered to inspect the roof space area. Too hung up on the fact there were no instructions on the washing machine, as requested in HTM84!
If he had he would have seen the perforations in the fire compartment walls caused by workmen and the fact that AFD had not been extended to all compartments as required
Hope he is the exception

Understoood Davyfire, and there will always be exceptions to the rule. I was merely poitning out to Piglet that if you tested a Firefighter alongside an accountant about fire safety the firefighter would be more knowledgeable.

A fairer comparison would be to take a non operational expert on fire vs a firefighter (As the thrust of the argument was based on the competency of fire professionals who hadn't been operationalfirefighters)